Abdallah Alharazneh

[00:00:00] Sandra Sarrouf: Okay, today is August 19th, 2025. I am Sandra Sarrouf with the Mawtini: Arab American Narratives of Home and Belonging Project, and I'm here with Abdallah Alharazneh. And just to confirm, you consent to being recorded and having your story available on the website, knowing you can redact any part of your narrative and also take down your narrative at any point, but you are the owner of the story and you're allowing us to record you today. [00:00:39] Abdullah Alharazneh: Sure. Okay, great. [00:00:42] Sandra Sarrouf: Thanks so much for being with us and taking the time to share your story. [00:00:46] Abdullah Alharazneh: Thank you for doing all the efforts to collect all these information together and present it to, for a cause. [00:00:56] Sandra Sarrouf: Yeah. We know Arab Americans are part of our community and have been for a long time, yet we haven't been seen. So we start with, where were you born and when? [00:01:09] Abdullah Alharazneh: I was born in Jordan, 1973. So I'm over 50. [Laughs] And I came to the United States in the year 1998, my first visit. [00:01:28] Sandra Sarrouf: Okay. Before we jump to that, do you have siblings? What are some early memories? Tell me about your life in Jordan at the time. [00:01:41] Abdullah Alharazneh: The family, I have my brother and sister. I only even have one sister, the oldest, and I have four brothers. So five boys, one girl. So total eight. Family of eight. Big family, but not that big. Yeah. I am not the youngest. The one before the youngest. [00:02:16] Sandra Sarrouf: Okay. Almost the baby. [00:02:17] Abdullah Alharazneh: Almost the baby. Yeah. [00:02:20] Sandra Sarrouf: And you said in Jordan, what city or what town in Jordan? [00:02:23] Abdullah Alharazneh: The city I was born in was Zarqa. This is- [00:02:28] Sandra Sarrouf: How do you spell that? [00:02:32] Abdullah Alharazneh: Z, in Arabic "alzarqa'," which is the blue city. I don't know why they name it this way, but this is the second big city after the capital Amman. Now Zarqa is like half an hour from the capital, north to the capital. Is it north? Yeah, north. Zarqa, what make it distinguished is having kinda a mix of the people coming from out of the capital or out of the center, like the villages from the south, the north. It's mix of Jordanian Palestinian origin. So it's like mix of all, but it's not, it's underserved if compared with the capital of Amman. So Amman has the universities and the every kind of government centers. Zarqa was like kinda affordable city for people to live. [00:04:10] Sandra Sarrouf: And second largest city, you said? [00:04:11] Abdullah Alharazneh: It's the second largest. Yeah. [00:04:16] Sandra Sarrouf: And so, and were your parents from there as well? [00:04:19] Abdullah Alharazneh: No, the parents, like for example, my dad originally from the south of Jordan, city of Karak. And my mom originally Palestinian, who was expelled, immigrated 1948. [00:04:42] Abdullah Alharazneh: She was two years old. With another big family. She has two brothers and three sisters. So our family eight and her family was eight people. So, and they were expelled in 1948. They moved to Amman. So my father from the Karak, he met my mom in Amman, and they get married. They lived a couple of years in Amman, and we moved to Zarqa, I think because of his brothers. Two of his brothers were living there. And I think job stuff like that. And I- [00:05:28] Sandra Sarrouf: And your mom's family stayed in Amman? [00:05:32] Abdullah Alharazneh: My mom's side. They stay in Amman not too long because I think my grandfather passed away. And my grandmother has to get married. Then at one point they moved to Saudi Arabia for a job, I think. And I have, so when they moved to Saudi Arabia and she got married for the second time, she has, I have my aunties like another four. So my mom family become kind of double, double the size after that. [00:06:23] Sandra Sarrouf: Okay. And did you grow up a lot with your cousins and... [00:06:27] Abdullah Alharazneh: They used to come because most of them in Saudi Arabia and they come in the summer break. So it was kind of nice atmosphere. They come visit, stay with us, spend time. Yeah. [00:06:43] Sandra Sarrouf: And your father's family was... [00:06:45] Abdullah Alharazneh: My father family. Half, like live in where I born and the other half was living in the original city, Karak. Yeah. [00:06:57] Sandra Sarrouf: What are some early, when you think about your childhood, what are some memories that come to mind? [00:07:02] Abdullah Alharazneh: Well, memories, you know, big families get together. Cousins. Not all the memories are good memories. Sometimes it's like, you know [laughs]. But it was, it was nice. Like childhood memories. Like- [00:07:22] Sandra Sarrouf: Like what would be one of those not so nice childhood memories. [00:07:26] Abdullah Alharazneh: Not so nice. You know, sometimes every family, we have kind of some friction, fight, disagreement. You feel you are closer to your mom's side than your father's side? I think this is kinda routine. It's not my only story, but I think this is how it is. Usually. Usually you are closer to your mom's side. You feel more comfortable. You feel they are closer, kinda kinder. Maybe sometimes, you will feel... The mix of... I don't know if you're aware of the mix of Jordanian Palestinian formula. [00:08:19] Sandra Sarrouf: Tell me about it. [00:08:22] Abdullah Alharazneh: We all jordanian, but still you gonna find some kinda discrimination. Even in the same family. It's like, "Oh, you are Jordanian-Jordanian or Jordanian-Palestinian?" Unfortunately. So, but it was okay. [00:08:46] Sandra Sarrouf: So you felt as those are some of the experiences you had being half Palestinian or more what you saw your mom experience. [00:08:58] Abdullah Alharazneh: Okay. In my childhood, I felt at one point that there was some discrimination against us or my mom to be specific. Just because she is Palestinian. And this kind of builds some disagreement, maybe. It's not like a healthy environment with the cousins. But still it was, it was okay. We survived. [Laughs.] [00:09:33] Sandra Sarrouf: Still are family. Love each other. [00:09:36] Abdullah Alharazneh: Which is sad, I think. There should be like, shouldn't be discrimination. I can't just call it discrimination, but I don't think they consider that discrimination. Just say, "Oh, we just, uh..." [00:09:53] Sandra Sarrouf: Prejudice. [00:09:55] Abdullah Alharazneh: Prejudice, yeah. Stupidity. Whatever you call it? [00:09:59] Sandra Sarrouf: Stupid. And what about some positive memories, some fun memories or... [00:10:09] Abdullah Alharazneh: Positive? Yeah, of course. A lot of positive, but usually the negative things stick to our memory more than the positive things. [Laughs.] [00:10:18] Sandra Sarrouf: Of course, of course. Because they impact us so deeply. [00:10:23] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah. Life was nice. Kids, innocent. Life was easy. Safe to play in the street. It's not complicated. It was, it was nice, kind of close environment. Like, you know your neighbor, they care about you. You play in the street. You finish the school, you eat something and you just walk to the street. You come at the end of the day, what happened? Go wash your self and get some food and sleep. Yeah, it was like nice memories of a childhood [00:11:11] Sandra Sarrouf: And so when you talk about the prejudice and the discrimination you experienced and you saw your mom experience and your dad being Jordanian-Jordanian, and your mom being Jordanian-Palestinian, did your dad hold some of those? [00:11:27] Abdullah Alharazneh: No. [00:11:27] Sandra Sarrouf: Did you feel some of that from your dad? [00:11:29] Abdullah Alharazneh: No. My dad was kind of against anything like that, but sometimes you feel like he need to deal with it. He's part of, he's a victim of discrimination. [Laughs.] But we feel it. Maybe it wasn't that bad, but at one point we feel it. And because when you go, when you go out, sometimes you hear it from the other people. Like you feel, it's like, "You are Jordanian-Jordanian or Jordanian-Palestinian?" Yeah. [00:12:07] Sandra Sarrouf: What would you say that stemmed from? [00:12:11] Abdullah Alharazneh: Well. I don't know. It's just, I think jealousy sometimes, maybe. And sometimes I think because of the history of the region. Sometimes governments play this game to kinda distract some people from something more important. This is what I believe. I used to hear stuff about, the civil, I don't know if it was a civil, really civil war, but usually I used to hear some disagreement at one point when the Palestinian Liberation Organization was disagreeing. They have some power in Jordan and they claim that they wanna take over the government. So they become like a civil war between the army and the Fateh, I think. So these like sour memories, maybe they just use it to kinda ignite this discrimination, prejudice, fear. Saying, "Oh, they want to take over. You're not from us. You guys doing trouble, the government," and blah, blah, blah. [00:13:51] Sandra Sarrouf: Yet many hundreds, thousands of Palestinians came to Jordan as a result of the Nakba. [00:13:56] Abdullah Alharazneh: Well, Jordan nowadays, 50/50, almost. 50% Jordanian-Jordanian [laughs], and 50% originally from Palestine. But for now, most of the Palestinians are born in Jordan. Were born in Jordan? Because like most of the people who were born in Palestine, 1948, like my mom, she passed away 2007. So if she's still alive, she's what, 70 something? 75, 78? It's been almost 80 years. So most of them, whoever have originally from Palestine, most of them born in Jordan. So Jordanian-Jordanian. But still. It's still, it's in the region. And I think this prejudice or discrimination was ignited usually with government to take advantage and distract people from stuff like more important to them. [00:15:10] Sandra Sarrouf: And a story or a narrative I've been told is that the Palestinians built Jordan. That's like what I've heard. [00:15:17] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah. They contributed like building not only in Jordan, they went to the Gulf countries, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait. And they did big, big contribution at education level. Most of the school teachers are from Palestinian origin. And they are highly educated. [00:15:42] Sandra Sarrouf: And so you grew up with a strong sense- [00:15:44] Abdullah Alharazneh: They lived tough life and so there was incentive for them to improve their financial situation, education situation, and focus in the kids to go to school and study and prosper. Yeah. [00:16:09] Sandra Sarrouf: What was your schooling like? [00:16:11] Abdullah Alharazneh: I went to public school, just school in the neighborhood, whatever school there. But I remember my mom's just like focusing in, you have to be good at school. You have your grades, has to be straight A, you have to be, you have to be. [00:16:28] Abdullah Alharazneh: Because I think this build from their struggle, they wouldn't just want you to do or to get, and you struggle the way they struggled. Yeah. [00:16:39] Sandra Sarrouf: And you went from, so was it elementary, secondary? [00:16:43] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah. Usually in Jordan, the system is elementary, middle school, and high school. Total twelve years. All these schools, like wherever you assigned in the neighborhood to school, public school or government school, they call it. Yeah. [00:17:02] Sandra Sarrouf: And did you ever go back to Palestine with your mom as a child? [00:17:06] Abdullah Alharazneh: No, I never been into Palestine. And I think, I don't know, even my mom, she never go back to Palestine. Because I think the Palestinian they have like a card. I used to hear stuff like, I have this card that allow me to visit part of Palestine. [00:17:34] Abdullah Alharazneh: And some they are not allowed, depend on if they are from the 1948 or 1967. I'm not sure exactly to be honest with you. But my mom never go back. And I used to ask her, so tell me something about your village or city. Where is it? The only thing I know is the city she was born in was demolished. Completely demolished. [00:18:04] Sandra Sarrouf: By... [00:18:05] Abdullah Alharazneh: By the Israeli in 1948, and she told me that they build airport, military airport in the area. So there is no such a city to go back and visit. And this is the sad thing. Yeah. But she told me my grandfather used to own a farm like orange, because the city that she born in is like the region close to Jaffa. [00:18:39] Abdullah Alharazneh: So at back in the time, the best orange in the region was Jaffa orange that they used to sell it in boxes, ship it to Europe. So she used to live in a city like between Jaffa and Gaza. Part of her family were expelled to Gaza and they have to flee from this city all the way to Amman like walking. [00:19:19] Abdullah Alharazneh: Imagine yourself walking, I don't know, maybe from here to Ventura in a donkey with kids, two years old, one year, big family of six kids on a donkey with no cellphone, no food. No... It's sad. It's very sad. [00:19:52] Sandra Sarrouf: And when she tells you that story, because she was a baby, so she learned that story from her [unaudible], they were given any notice that was, does she remember? [00:20:00] Abdullah Alharazneh: Well I don't think she remember things, because she was two years old and the youngest of her sister was, I think newborn. But I think this is the story she start realizing when she get older, listening to her mom saying, "Okay, this is what we did. And we left everything at the house and we flee thinking we are gonna go back in a few days." Because most of the villages in Palestine, the story that we hear, that they left home hoping that things get better in a few days, so they go back home. So they don't have, they don't carry all their stuff. [00:20:53] Abdullah Alharazneh: But when you hear, okay, they are demolishing Paso Robles, okay? And they going south and you are in San Luis. So you say, "You know what, let's take whatever quickly can take and drive to Bakersfield, and we are gonna come back next week." But guess what? In another few days you hear, well, they conquer San Louis Obispo and your house is ashes now. So you have no choice but to look for plan B. And this is the sad story of the Palestinian, I think 650,000 at that time. They have to be expelled and homeless. And my mom was part of this strategy. Yeah. [00:21:58] Sandra Sarrouf: Yeah. And as her son and all your siblings know your history and your story and that story of Palestine. And so you went through school and then you had said you came to the US. [00:22:14] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yes. I finished my high school in Zarqa, Jordan. In the University of Jordan dental school. So I was a graduate in 1997 from the dental school. Then we were hoping to do more higher education and we were hoping to come to United States, get kind of speciality or stuff like that. [00:22:50] Sandra Sarrouf: When you say we, who's we? [00:22:52] Abdullah Alharazneh: We, because a group of dentists, me, my friend. And because the economy in Jordan is not that great. So you have to think sometimes if you don't have job offers most of the time you start thinking, okay, how about get higher education? So you don't waste time if you don't have job offer. So you get, just get more education and the more education you get the job offer, get drier [laughs] but at least you don't feel you waste your time. Right? [00:23:30] Sandra Sarrouf: You're still learning. You learned something. [00:23:33] Abdullah Alharazneh: You become, hat they call it here, more qualified or... [00:23:41] Sandra Sarrouf: Overqualified. [00:23:41] Abdullah Alharazneh: Overqualified. Yes, exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, I graduated in 1997. The economy is not great in Jordan at that time, at least, I'm not sure now. So I tried to find a job. I did some kind of try out here and there. [00:24:01] Abdullah Alharazneh: Then I decided, no, it's not gonna work. So what is my plan B? Maybe go do some kind of more education. Then I start thinking, okay, let me go to USA. And I have a brother, older brother, who was in New Jersey. So I thought, okay, maybe, maybe it's gonna work. Let's go to the United States. So I finished the dental school. [00:24:41] Abdullah Alharazneh: I stayed a few months. I tried here and there. It didn't work. So I start thinking, okay, let me take my next step. So if I wanna go to any dental school in the United States, I have to finish some examination either to get master's degree, speciality residency program. I have to finish some kinda examinations. It's okay. [00:25:07] Abdullah Alharazneh: The first step, I'm gonna take the national board exam. So I applied to the visa. I want to continue my education. I have some application filled. So I went, I got my visa. And this was my first entry or journey of another migration. So yeah, I came 1998. I believe I stayed maybe one month. [00:25:48] Sandra Sarrouf: And where did you come to? [00:25:49] Abdullah Alharazneh: New Jersey. [00:25:50] Sandra Sarrouf: New Jersey. [00:25:51] Abdullah Alharazneh: So I stayed my brother for one month in New Jersey. Then I went back home because of the visa, because they only gave me one month at that time. So you're not allowed to stay more than that. Then I did another visit six month, or less. Then a third visit. Then I felt that there is no way I can afford a residency program or master degree program. [00:26:20] Abdullah Alharazneh: Then I thought, you know what? California need dentists and I can get my license if I pass examination instead of going to school for two years. Now it's different. If you are foreign graduate, regardless, you can get your license by examination. I was lucky at that time, California opened the gate for foreign graduate. [00:26:48] Abdullah Alharazneh: So if you are a foreign graduate and you pass exams, there's national board exam one, two, another foreign graduate exam, then clinical board exam. Then you get your license. Then I said, "You know what, let's do it." Something better than nothing. And I did. [Laughs.] And I got my license. [00:27:20] Sandra Sarrouf: In California. [00:27:21] Abdullah Alharazneh: In California. And this is the end of 1999. 1999. I was licensed but I wasn't able to work even though I have my license. [00:27:43] Sandra Sarrouf: Why not? You weren't legally allowed to work because you didn't have... [00:27:50] Abdullah Alharazneh: [Laughs.] Okay. I have my, actually I passed the examination. Okay. Now no, let's do it this way. I passed all the examination and the requirement to get my license, but they don't want to give me the license because I don't have social security number. At that time. [00:28:19] Sandra Sarrouf: Because you were here on a visa? [00:28:20] Abdullah Alharazneh: Because I have visitor visa. Okay. Even though companies are kinda, if you have license at that time, companies will file working visa right away and they are waiting for you to submit your paper. And I was the lucky one that every time I want to try to get my social security, they change the rules. [00:28:49] Sandra Sarrouf: [Laughs.] Oh no. [00:28:51] Abdullah Alharazneh: So. And I usually tell my kids, to compare their struggle with my struggle. And I compare my struggle with my parents' struggle and I compare my parents' struggle with their parents' struggle. [Laughs.] [00:29:15] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah, it's a long story. I don't think we want to go into details of social security number. And I can't get my license. [00:29:26] Sandra Sarrouf: So you had people who wanted to hire you, who were willing to get a work visa for you, but couldn't, because you couldn't, they wouldn't give you a social security number. [00:29:34] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah. I came with friends from the same like dental school. Me and other two friends, I know other, but like two close friends. They got their social security number even with the visiting visa. But at that time, they keep changing the rule. Like you have, you stay, let's say you have a visa of thirty days and someone have a visa for sixty days. [00:30:18] Abdullah Alharazneh: At that time, the Social Security Administration or the DMV, they look at how many days you still have on your new visa. Then they decide based on that. Like I thought, okay, we are the same situation. We came for the same cause, we passed the exam the same way, but I was the unlucky one saying, "Oh, your visa they don't have enough to give you the social security number." But anyway, they're always a way. [Laughs.] [00:30:55] Sandra Sarrouf: And you were living in California at this time? [00:30:57] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah, I was living in California, but I'm not eligible for social security number. Back in the time when you come to the United States, you go to the DMV, you apply, you pass the written exam. Then they ask you, "Okay, you need to get your social, so we get you the license." [00:31:17] Abdullah Alharazneh: So you take this to the social security office, they give you the social security number, not valid for work. You go to DMV, they process your thing. But I was the lucky one. Every time I would approach this, "Oh, we changed the rule now. You can't get that. You can get..." Anyway. [00:31:41] Abdullah Alharazneh: I was kind of saying, "What I'm gonna do?" So I built all this for nothing? But I find out is okay, you didn't need the social security number, honestly, to get your license. You need just to show you are willing to pay your tax. So I have to fight the board to release my license by getting tax ID number. [00:32:20] Sandra Sarrouf: Oh wow. [00:32:21] Abdullah Alharazneh: So I applied for my tax ID number. I got my tax ID number. So I fought the board and say, "You guys not releasing my license, claiming we can't release professional board license without providing social security number for tax purpose," you know? And I agree with that. Okay. But I have a tax ID number, so I should get my license. Then they released my license. [00:32:58] Sandra Sarrouf: What a way to work the system. [00:33:00] Abdullah Alharazneh: So now I, sometimes I tell my kids, you guys lucky you have a social security number, you didn't have to fight for a social security number. You didn't have to fight for citizenship. You didn't have to fight for a green card. You don't have to fight for all this stuff. Like what we fought for. [00:33:23] Sandra Sarrouf: The generational struggle that you talk about is really important, like how you communicate that. [00:33:28] Abdullah Alharazneh: Now they struggle with their iPhone. "My iPhone is not working." "Can I have more screen time?" Oh my God. "Where is, did you order me the shoes that..." This is their struggle. [Laughs.] [00:33:39] Sandra Sarrouf: Right, right. Very different. So you were able, and so at that point you stayed in California. [00:33:47] Abdullah Alharazneh: So yeah. Yeah, I got my license. I applied to the job. And they apply me for a work permit, green card, and I earned my citizenship. And... [00:34:01] Sandra Sarrouf: That was in '99 you said. [00:34:04] Abdullah Alharazneh: I start working 2000 the year of 2000. And I have to go wherever they assign me to go because they applying for my green card or work permit. So I worked nurse aid Fresno areas. [00:34:24] Sandra Sarrouf: You worked, did you work for a dental company or- [00:34:26] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah, I worked for a company that they apply for your paperwork because they need dentists. So I worked in Fresno for about a year or so. Actually no Merced for about a year, Fresno for a few months. It was too hot and I didn't like it. That's why I came to the Central Coast. [00:34:51] Sandra Sarrouf: Okay. [00:34:51] Abdullah Alharazneh: So I came to the Central Coast, maybe the end of 2000. The year 2000. Yeah. And... [00:35:04] Sandra Sarrouf: And your family, so you had a brother in the United States in New Jersey, was the rest of- [00:35:08] Abdullah Alharazneh: My brother in New Jersey, yeah, he's still in New Jersey. [00:35:11] Sandra Sarrouf: Okay. And the rest of your family was in Jordan? Say your mom, your dad, siblings. [00:35:16] Abdullah Alharazneh: Well, my dad passed away when I was in middle school. In the middle school. But, my mom passed away 2008. Yeah. [00:35:39] Sandra Sarrouf: And so when you're, so you were. Your mom then raised you with her family and... [00:35:44] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah, my mom. [00:35:45] Sandra Sarrouf: Did she work? [00:35:46] Abdullah Alharazneh: My mom? No. My mom didn't work, but my older brothers support the family. They have job in Jordan, my sister, the older one, and my older brothers. Then the older brother moved to the United States to work and support the family too. So he struggled too. Yeah. [00:36:15] Sandra Sarrouf: Do you mind telling me how your father died? [00:36:19] Abdullah Alharazneh: What is that? [00:36:20] Sandra Sarrouf: Do you mind telling me how your father died or how he passed away? [00:36:24] Abdullah Alharazneh: Oh, my father, he was sick. He went to the hospital. He stayed few months and he passed away in the hospital. Yeah. And I was, maybe eighth grade. Yeah, eighth grade. And my little brother was sixth grade. So my mom has to take care of me, him. And my older brother was in high school the last year of the high school, which is a critical year where you decide how, your grade, how gonna be to- [00:37:14] Sandra Sarrouf: Your career, your studies, your... [00:37:16] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah. University program. [00:37:19] Sandra Sarrouf: So did he end up going to university or he worked for the family. [00:37:26] Abdullah Alharazneh: My older, the one who just older than me, he finished high school the year my dad passed away and he was doing final exams in Jordan. And he ended up like passing and going to the university. So he studied physics. But this, the whole situation kind of forced family members to do, to make a decision like, the least costly education, for example, or I have to do this because I can't afford going to college. [00:38:12] Abdullah Alharazneh: So I remember my brother who just was going into the final year of the high school. He did good. But he has to go to study with the military to afford the bachelor degree at that time. And there were two other older brothers working with the sister. So three members of the family working to support the family. [00:38:50] Sandra Sarrouf: Wow. [00:38:52] Abdullah Alharazneh: So my sister and two older brother, they were working and supporting the family till they move on and continue their education. That's why my older, the oldest brother, I was in dental school. I remember when we get into the dental school, me, finish high school going into dental school. This is the year he moved to the United States. [00:39:29] Abdullah Alharazneh: From that day till I got my license, he was supporting the family and supporting me. So we can at one point return this to the family again. So without this, it will be impossible for me to finish my dental school, for my younger brother to finish his medical school. So thank God I have good family. [00:40:03] Sandra Sarrouf: You all are supporting each other. [00:40:04] Abdullah Alharazneh: Like all supportive? Very supportive, yeah. Yeah. [00:40:10] Sandra Sarrouf: How old was your dad? [00:40:12] Abdullah Alharazneh: My dad was in 60. In the 60s. Yeah. [00:40:16] Sandra Sarrouf: That must have been shocking and hard for the family. [00:40:19] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah, he was sick for a while before he passed away, so it was a tough year. Especially on my mom, like how's she gonna take over the kids financially. But thank God, like my older brother and sister, they were like very supportive and hard worker and it worked. [00:40:47] Sandra Sarrouf: Yeah. It sounds like it's a value in your family, right? You support and you give back and as you leaned into your profession and got your career, you were giving back as well- [00:41:00] Abdullah Alharazneh: Of course. [00:41:00] Sandra Sarrouf: To your family. Yeah. [00:41:03] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah. [00:41:05] Sandra Sarrouf: So you're a dentist? [00:41:07] Abdullah Alharazneh: I am a dentist. [Laughs.] Yeah. [00:41:11] Sandra Sarrouf: And you moved to the Central Coast, so you bounced around with the company, and you went back to Jordan to visit family in that time or? [00:41:19] Abdullah Alharazneh: Well, yeah, I went back to Jordan a few times. [00:41:27] Sandra Sarrouf: What were your impressions when you came to the United States? [00:41:30] Abdullah Alharazneh: When I came to the United States? The impression? [00:41:33] Sandra Sarrouf: Such a big difference. [00:41:34] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah, of course. Yeah. I remember. Actually, I was going in my memories today back when I came the first time I was, oh my God. I was like surprised. Oh, this is system, transportation, stuff like... I was impressed. Yeah, I was impressed. Like, "Yeah, I wanna be here." Then over the time you just kind of normalize with, "Okay, so what is a big deal? It's just, this is how it should be." But yeah, I was very impressed when I came. I remember when I came to United States in 1998. Yeah, 1998. I was impressed with the East Coast. [00:42:27] Abdullah Alharazneh: You know, New York, the highways, and the system and just, okay, nice. Then I came to the West Coast, '99. I was shocked. I said, "This is not America." [Laughs.] [00:42:51] Sandra Sarrouf: It was that different, huh? [00:42:52] Abdullah Alharazneh: Because, I was comparing like the big cities, New York, and I used to hear Los Angeles, like I was expecting Los Angeles gonna be kind of the twin of New York. When we landed in LAX, I felt, no, we are going back to the Middle East. [Laughs.] [00:43:15] Abdullah Alharazneh: There's no way. Okay. And then we were driving from LAX to our friend house in east like, like more than east like, Indio area, or the desert area. It was, I was shocked. I said, "No, I don't want to be here. I want to go back to New York." But after 25 years living in the, California, then you explore the beauty of the West Coast. [00:43:52] Abdullah Alharazneh: When like we went to New York with the family, twice, I think in the past 12 months or maybe more. The kids loved New York. Loved New York. And you ask him, "Do you want to live in New York?" He said, "Yes, I want to live in New York." But for me, so what? It's just, it's nice to visit, but no way to live. So things change when you get older, you have a family, then you realize it is not what it looks like. [Laughs.] It's in New York. It's Vegas. [00:44:31] Abdullah Alharazneh: But, yeah, I remember when I finished my second or third exam and I was stressed, so we decided to drive to Las Vegas for the first time. And oh my god, I was impressed with Vegas. You know, high-rise building, the lights, the lives, oh my God, this is the best. [Laughs.] Now when I go to Vegas, I said, "No way. I can't, I can't take it." [00:45:02] Sandra Sarrouf: I know whenever we had family visiting from overseas, we would take them to Vegas and to Disneyland. It was like America. [00:45:11] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yes. Then it become like a routine. Then you realize, okay, this is not, this is not what I'm looking for. But Central Coast, honestly it's nice. It just has, kind of good for families, not traffic like if you go to big cities. The weather is beautiful, Central Coast, so if you ask me... [00:45:40] Sandra Sarrouf: So you feel like you adapted. Was it hard to integrate into quote unquote "American society"? [00:45:48] Abdullah Alharazneh: Not really. Not really. So it's not, it wasn't hard to integrate, but the first few years was hard. Because you have the language barrier, you don't know the system. [00:46:12] Abdullah Alharazneh: You are not having, like financially you are unstable. Even if you try to get to stable financial situation, you still have to support the family in a way. So, paperwork is not clear. Am I gonna have my green card in a couple of years, or it's gonna take 10 years? Like at one point they lost my paperwork in the immigration after like applying to the green card. [00:46:54] Abdullah Alharazneh: I think. Yeah. I was waiting, like my other friends waiting for their paperwork, they get all their paperwork, and I was saying, they we were saying like, "We lost your application." So I have to fight with my social security number, now I have to fight with my green card. Are you crazy? I have enough! [Laughs.] So yeah. [00:47:23] Abdullah Alharazneh: At one point I was thinking I should write my book of my struggle. It's funny for my kids to read this book. So, and I tell them, "Okay, when you feel you are in struggle, please read my book." [00:47:36] Sandra Sarrouf: Yes. And your grandmother's... [00:47:38] Abdullah Alharazneh: and if it's not enough, you read my mom's struggle. And if it's not enough, I will refer you to my grandparents' struggle. So, yeah. [00:47:47] Sandra Sarrouf: And you share those stories with the kids? [00:47:50] Abdullah Alharazneh: The kids, yeah, sometimes I share it. But I don't know if they pay attention. [00:47:55] Sandra Sarrouf: I'm sure they do. [00:47:55] Abdullah Alharazneh: And they say, "Who cares? Like, you have everything now." [00:47:59] Sandra Sarrouf: They might act like they don't pay attention, but I'm sure they're hearing it. [00:48:02] Abdullah Alharazneh: Don't make me feel bad. Right? [00:48:07] Sandra Sarrouf: So you ended up in the Central Coast and then what kept you here? [00:48:12] Abdullah Alharazneh: Okay, now. Before I got my paperwork, I worked with the same company in Santa Maria. So I came to Santa Maria and there was two of my friends, graduate classmates from dental school working on the same place. So we worked together in the year 2000, I think. Year 2000, 2001. And I loved the weather. It's perfect. And it's not traffic, it's nice. So I liked it. And then I got my paperwork. Then I opened my own practice, 2005, 2006. It's been like 20 years. I have my own small office and I get married in 2009. Then we have two kids. They going to school. [00:49:25] Sandra Sarrouf: And how did you meet your wife? [00:49:28] Abdullah Alharazneh: My wife originally from Southern California, so yeah, I met her in 2009 and we get married. [00:49:39] Sandra Sarrouf: And how did you meet her? [00:49:41] Abdullah Alharazneh: How did I [laughs] you can ask [inaudible]. [00:49:45] Sandra Sarrouf: don't have to tell me because it's fine. [00:49:48] Abdullah Alharazneh: No, actually, a friend of mine that he knows a friend of her family, and then we got introduced to each other. [00:50:04] Sandra Sarrouf: So you were living here? And she was in Los Angeles. [00:50:08] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah. [00:50:09] Sandra Sarrouf: And you met. [00:50:10] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yes. [00:50:10] Sandra Sarrouf: And you hit it off and you liked each other. [00:50:14] Abdullah Alharazneh: And we clicked. [00:50:14] Sandra Sarrouf: You clicked, and she's of a similar background ethnically. [00:50:18] Abdullah Alharazneh: She's Palestinian. Yeah, she's Palestinian. They immigrated to, they have to move to Kuwait. Her parents from Palestine, they moved to Kuwait and they lived in Kuwait. Then they have to move to United States after invasion of Kuwait, 1991. [00:50:51] Abdullah Alharazneh: So they moved to the United States, 1991. So, and this is the year, I remember this year, because I was in high school. I was finishing my last year of high school in Jordan, 1991. And the invasion. The war started in Kuwait. Yeah. So, when they moved to United States, I was taking my final exams in the high school. I am bad with years and dates. I don't memorize. The only years I remember is my date of birth. [00:51:40] Sandra Sarrouf: And pivotal moments. [00:51:41] Abdullah Alharazneh: And 1991. [00:51:42] Sandra Sarrouf: So you had been living here for almost nine years before you met- [00:51:48] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yes. [00:51:48] Sandra Sarrouf: Your wife. Or longer than nine years. [00:51:51] Abdullah Alharazneh: So I lived in Santa Maria for almost eight, nine years before I met my wife. Yes. [00:52:01] Sandra Sarrouf: And you married, and she came up here to live with you? [00:52:04] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah, she moved to Santa Maria. Yeah. [00:52:09] Sandra Sarrouf: And you have two boys. [00:52:11] Abdullah Alharazneh: Two boys. [00:52:15] Sandra Sarrouf: And how has it been, have you found community in Santa Maria or San Luis Obispo... [00:52:22] Abdullah Alharazneh: Well, we have, yeah, we have, but the community is small community. You can't compare the community in the Center Coast with Southern California, like Orange County or Los Angeles. It's small. Very small. [00:52:40] Sandra Sarrouf: As far as the Arabs or what you do think- [00:52:43] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah, Middle Eastern, Arabs. It's small community. I wish it's bigger or more kind of organized. And this is what we're missing in the Central Coast. So we have everything: weather, nice place to raise kids and family. But we miss the connection with community, like having big organized community. [00:53:18] Sandra Sarrouf: Middle Eastern, like cultural events. [00:53:19] Abdullah Alharazneh: Middle Eastern? Yeah. [00:53:20] Sandra Sarrouf: Or like what parts do you miss? [00:53:23] Abdullah Alharazneh: Cultural events? Like, for example, like if you wanna get some grocery, Middle Eastern grocery, you don't find one. If you wanna enjoy like Middle Eastern food. We have some, but it's not like the one you have in Orange County or Los Angeles. So we as a family, sometimes we go south to the Orange County, Anaheim. [00:54:01] Sandra Sarrouf: Super Kings? [00:54:01] Abdullah Alharazneh: [Laughs.] Spend a few days there enjoying like the feeling of the culture just, into the Middle Eastern restaurant, Middle Eastern store, eating Middle Eastern sweets, knafa or whatever falafel sandwich, shawarma. [00:54:24] Sandra Sarrouf: Seeing the people, hearing the language. [00:54:26] Abdullah Alharazneh: See the people, yeah. Yeah, we miss this in the Central Coast. This is lacking. I wish we have more of this. [00:54:38] Sandra Sarrouf: And there are pockets, like right, as part of this project, we see Arab Americans are in the Central Coast. Yes. Maybe it's separated or what brings, where have you found coming together, because in San Luis there's the mosque or different cultural events, or where have- [00:54:57] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah, there is. They need, like, if they have like community potluck dinner once a month. Now in Santa Maria we're just trying to do almost the same, like picnic once a month. Maybe it's getting better over the time. I remember when I came in 2000, we don't know, I don't know much about Middle Eastern, maybe few friends. That's it. [00:55:34] Sandra Sarrouf: And so now most of your friends, would you say it's mixed like in your community, and... [00:55:40] Abdullah Alharazneh: We have more now. It's growing. I think the number is increasing. They doing some activity. Trying to connect Santa Maria with San Luis, with Santa Barbara. Making kind of bigger Middle Eastern, Arab community getting together. Yeah. [00:56:02] Sandra Sarrouf: And do you, you spend time in San Luis? [00:56:04] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yes. Yes, I know many people in San Luis. Nice community. Yeah. Yeah. [00:56:11] Sandra Sarrouf: And how has it been, because I know many people, right, with the current events and what's been happening in Palestine, right? That's brought, have you found that that's been a source of bringing people together? [00:56:27] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yes. I noticed that people got together after what happening in Gaza, but lately I feel like they're not, it's not like before, not like how they... I feel like they give up. I don't know. Did they give up because they feel hopeless? Did they give up because what they're doing, like targeting anyone speaking about Gaza with the new administration. Is it combination of both? Could be, but I don't know how. [00:57:25] Sandra Sarrouf: Yeah. And how have you felt as a Palestinian Jordanian in the community? You know, for the past year and a half, almost two years, when so much attention has been, not attention, but the narrative of Palestine and the genocide and people lobbying for ceasefires and it being so contentious at times. How have you felt as a Jordanian Palestinian? [00:57:58] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah, I felt everyone was interested to submit the clear message about the narrative and the cause of the Palestinian struggle and injustice that the Palestinians suffered for the last 80 years. And they did a good job as community, like giving this message, or trying to get the ceasefire. But I think lately I don't feel the energy of this like before. Yeah. And it could be because of the election. What happened in the last six months. The last six months was kind of total disaster. [00:59:18] Sandra Sarrouf: Yeah, and the fear has- [00:59:21] Abdullah Alharazneh: Because the fear of, if you talk then now the fear, like last year was if you talk, nobody listens. If you talk, nobody cares. If you talk, you talk to brainwashed. But now if you talk, you are in trouble. [00:59:46] Abdullah Alharazneh: This is kind of feeling being, kind of want to suppress the whole idea of defending the cause of, and showing the struggle of the Palestinian and Gaza, the starvation, the genocide now. It's scary. [01:00:12] Sandra Sarrouf: Yeah. [01:00:15] Abdullah Alharazneh: Do you feel this way? [01:00:18] Sandra Sarrouf: Yeah. [01:00:19] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah. [01:00:20] Sandra Sarrouf: Yeah. I mean, I think it, for me, I feel it's a mix of what you're saying, right? [01:00:24] Sandra Sarrouf: The, the hope, the feeling of not giving up, but. When we do so much or try like with the ceasefire different, those people in power aren't listening or aren't doing anything to create the change. [01:00:48] Abdullah Alharazneh: But- [01:00:48] Sandra Sarrouf: Even locally. [01:00:50] Abdullah Alharazneh: But I see many people I like switching and digesting the narrative in the correct way. You can't sell them the Zionist message like before. You can't sell me this anymore because I am watching twenty-four-seven live genocide on my phone. Yeah. Don't tell me I am antisemitic. I can see it. You can't sell it to me anymore. You used to sell me this fear of. "Israel has the right to exist," and you sold me this narrative for the last 80 years almost. Now you can't sell me, "Israel has the right to commit genocide." Because... [01:02:09] Sandra Sarrouf: We're seeing it. [01:02:10] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah. The people used to have sympathy with Israel because of Holocaust. Right? And this sympathy is expired because we have another Holocaust committed now by the name of the first one, but on different people. So it's over. So I see many people now understanding, maybe not enough. Maybe the community need to work more on educating people, then they may get more support. But I see it. I see many, especially the new generation, they can't be brainwashed anymore. [01:03:14] Sandra Sarrouf: They're seeing, they have access to the news. And to the real stories. [01:03:19] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah. And you can't sell them this garbage anymore. People not listening to Fox News anymore. [01:03:32] Sandra Sarrouf: So you've seen the shift- [01:03:33] Abdullah Alharazneh: I've seen, yeah. [01:03:34] Sandra Sarrouf: More of the shift in the time and hope for more. [01:03:37] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yep. [01:03:39] Sandra Sarrouf: Yeah, me too. It's a constant effort and part of this project of telling the story of our Arab American community, where we've been seen, where we haven't been seen in public spaces. Right. And as Arab Americans, well, you know, the work we've done for Arab American Heritage Month, to bring culture, to bring education to now we're not gonna, we're gonna have a line on the census. Right. So, our voices hopefully are being heard. And this narrative you're talking about, the dominant narrative is being countered. Or seen, expanded. The truth is being seen. Yeah. And how have your kids felt in school and have there been any- [01:04:34] Abdullah Alharazneh: Well- [01:04:36] Sandra Sarrouf: Being young Arab American students... [01:04:37] Abdullah Alharazneh: My kids, they know. They know. And I think it was a good timing for my kids to realize some history about their grandparents. My kids, at school, they were okay. They don't have problems. But there, there was some incidents, for example, it's sad when the kids feel discrimination. Hate on their race or religion or their background. [01:05:37] Abdullah Alharazneh: It's funny, like my 10 years old son, he go to school and at one point, the girl told him, "You guys killed Jesus." [Laughs.] I said, "What? Serious?" She's that complicated. She studied that we killed the Palestinian Jesus? Well, so, [laughs] now I was, I was shocked. I say, "Okay, where do you want me to start?" Like, to start with my son, so he get the correct narrative that he submitted to the other kid and the other kid submitted to the family or to the grandparents that, [laughs] we Palestinian killed Jesus, right. So it's sad. Yeah. It's sad. [01:06:52] Sandra Sarrouf: What kids hear. [01:06:53] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah. But my son, he knows that, he said, "Well, I know, but I didn't argue." I said, "Okay, you don't have to argue, but do you know what's going on?" He said, "Yeah, Jesus is Palestinian. How will we kill Jesus?" [Laughs.] [01:07:12] Sandra Sarrouf: So they're even starting to see some of the differences, or see themselves as different. [01:07:22] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah. They see themselves, "Oh, I'm different." Okay. But I usually like to empower my kids, say in year one, you know, "You are different, but in a good, good way. You are different because not too many people like you, and this is power for you. You don't feel bad because you are different. You are different because you have what the other people don't have." [01:07:54] Abdullah Alharazneh: But you have to talk to the kids saying, why this little girl, 10 years old, she doesn't know on the map where is Palestine or where is the Middle East or what's going on? Tell them, "You guys, you guys killed Jesus." So I don't know what, at that time, "I don't wanna play with your group because blah, blah, blah." But I think parents play a big role and kinda- [01:08:28] Sandra Sarrouf: Absolutely. [01:08:29] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah. [Laughs.] [01:08:31] Sandra Sarrouf: And with your kids, you had mentioned before we started recording, you speak to them in Arabic, they get Arabic with their grandparents. What other ways are you, you're sharing stories? Are there other ways you're sustaining your- [01:08:44] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah, my kids. My kids, they understand Arabic, so if you talk to them they understand. My one, the older, he can understand and speak the language. They don't write Arabic, but they at least they understand. And most of the time we speak Arabic at home with them. Yeah. But studying the history after Gaza situation, they start like reading or trying to kinda know some stuff and they try to present at school. [01:09:24] Abdullah Alharazneh: Like my son, the older son he was presenting for his school project, "Christmas in Jerusalem." With pictures taken in Bethlehem and Jerusalem at Christmas time. And connect that with the struggle in Gaza. And it was kind of a good chance to educate not only the kids, but the teachers. [01:10:04] Sandra Sarrouf: Yeah. [01:10:05] Abdullah Alharazneh: Because if the teachers and the parents having a problem with this narrative, so it's useless to teach the kids. [01:10:16] Sandra Sarrouf: And how did the teachers respond? Was there- [01:10:19] Abdullah Alharazneh: No, the teachers are they're understanding. So we didn't have problem with the teacher. We didn't feel any problem with the teacher. But obviously there was some kids get affected with the family. Or, I remember, I remember like one of the incident, like, it obviously was another, I think another incident like the boy was listening to his grandfather like saying, "Don't play with these kids." Like, whatever, I don't know what he's saying. "These terrorist kids" or something, "they're just different." So yeah. But my kids don't have problem with that. So they are kind of immune to- [01:11:08] Sandra Sarrouf: They're strong, in who they are. [01:11:09] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah. They know. They know what they expecting. They know what they mean. [01:11:14] Sandra Sarrouf: Yeah. Yeah. So much richness here. And so you've lived in the Central Coast. Have you been, have you taken the kids back? Have you gone back to Jordan? [01:11:31] Abdullah Alharazneh: Not yet. [01:11:31] Sandra Sarrouf: Not yet. [01:11:32] Abdullah Alharazneh: Not yet. But we are planning, hopefully. We were planning actually this year. In summer break. But you know what happened with the airports? They were closed when they have rockets launching from Iran and the area, and most of the airports closed. So we were planning to buy the ticket and go. Then we got the news. Okay. They are not safe. So we canceled everything. So hopefully next year. [01:12:15] Sandra Sarrouf: Inshallah. Next year. [01:12:15] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah, hopefully. [01:12:18] Sandra Sarrouf: And when you think of home, what do you think of this home? [01:12:24] Abdullah Alharazneh: Well, home is where you can live safe and comfortable. This is home for me. It's not where you are born. It's not where your parents born. Home is where you live and you take your rights. Complete rights. This is your home. [01:12:53] Abdullah Alharazneh: But home can be where you live, or where your heart kind of feel belong, or where your kids' young, early ages, school memories. You don't have to stick to one home or one origin, or one country. Because some people are telling me, "Are you Jordanian? Are you Palestinian? Are you American?" I am all. I am Jordanian when you ask me where you born? Where you have schooling, memories with the kids. I am Palestinian with my heart and my mom. Proud Palestinian. And I'm American when I feel I live a comfortable life with my kids and my family. [01:13:59] Abdullah Alharazneh: But this is home. Home is where you live, where you feel safe, comfortable, and you're taking, and you have your rights. You don't feel discriminated. But unfortunately we have lots of discrimination in this country. So sometimes like, make a dent in your acknowledgement of home. Is this your home? Yes, it's my home, but it's missing something. Yeah. [01:14:37] Sandra Sarrouf: Yeah. That's really beautifully said. And in Santa Maria, have you felt that discrimination, you said in America? [01:14:47] Abdullah Alharazneh: We don't feel it like in a way that, okay, we worry about every day. [01:14:56] Sandra Sarrouf: Like you're safety. Yeah. [01:14:57] Abdullah Alharazneh: But, once in a while, like you get into a situation, and say, "Oh my God, what is that? Just no. Is it real?" [Laughs.] But unfortunately, yeah, it's just, even if it happened once a month or once every other month, it's too much. [Laughs.] [01:15:20] Sandra Sarrouf: Right? [01:15:20] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah. [01:15:21] Sandra Sarrouf: Do you have any, like, can you think of examples? [01:15:24] Abdullah Alharazneh: Well, example... [Pause.] Some example that I usually, kind of, leave bad memories for me. When I was here in, when I opened my practice, 2005, I think. 2005. I get letter, threatening letter... [Pause.] Like I was shocked. And it was from anonymous person or something. It just made me. stuff like, "We're gonna kill you, we're gonna blah, blah blah." Like pointing my name. I don't know if he noticed my sign outside, my name or something. Then crazy maniac me the letter. And it's funny, like I asked my friend, "What should I do?" [01:16:19] Abdullah Alharazneh: He said, "Call the FBI. You should give them the letter." Well, I just called the FBI and they took the letter and just said, "Well, we'll do our investigation and we'll get back to you." And after a few months, he says, "Okay. Sorry we didn't find anything. If you get into this situation again, give us a call, blah, blah, blah." [01:16:41] Sandra Sarrouf: Did you show it to the local police? [01:16:43] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah, I went to the FBI office in Santa Maria and gave them the letter of threatening. I don't know. It's just crazy. [01:16:51] Sandra Sarrouf: Yeah. [01:16:52] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah. Crazy. [01:16:54] Sandra Sarrouf: So that's, yeah... [01:16:54] Abdullah Alharazneh: Like you can feel the, I forget the exact details in the letter. But you can tell it's like naming my name and it's like a Muslim or Arabic or Arab or, we're gonna... It's crazy. Yeah. [Laughs.] [01:17:15] Sandra Sarrouf: But with all that home is where the heart is... [01:17:18] Abdullah Alharazneh: So yeah. You will feel the discrimination once in a while, but I think we got used to that. [Laughs.] [01:17:29] Sandra Sarrouf: Yeah. [01:17:30] Abdullah Alharazneh: But in general it's not that bad. So I think you have to get used to that. And you expect that once in a while. Especially when they deal with you with your name or how you dress, if your wife is Muslim or cover her face, her head, like yeah, you just, sometimes you sense it. Even if it's not said you sense that. It's just why he's, or she's looking at you this way or saying [inaudible]. [01:18:12] Sandra Sarrouf: You sense the judgments or the thoughts or the feelings. Yeah. Yeah. A great story. And so, is there anything else you want to share that you'd wanna speak about that I didn't ask you? Any, like, if you were to give, is there anything you think like this project is for the city of SLO could do to improve your experiences or sense of belonging? [01:18:45] Abdullah Alharazneh: Well, I hope they acknowledge the Middle Eastern, Arab in the middle, in the Central Coast. [01:18:57] Abdullah Alharazneh: We just have more representation, like we are here. We are professionals. We have Cal Poly professors. Yeah, this is, for example, I would be happy at one point if the City of San Luis, for example, they have acknowledging our community more. I wish we have more activities, or programs. Anything to acknowledge the community? It would be nice. [01:19:52] Abdullah Alharazneh: For me, for example, I wish that they acknowledge our religious celebration at Eid, for example. Well, "San Luis Obispo congratulate" or "This is the month of Ramadan," blah, blah, blah. Like with, how do we acknowledge other minorities? [01:20:15] Abdullah Alharazneh: And I think at one point we reached the city council thing and, well, maybe it's working. Because after we complained about misrepresentation or lack of representation, they, I think, they start kind of acknowledging, but not enough. [01:20:41] Sandra Sarrouf: Right. I think they did a proclamation or something for Ramadan or- [01:20:45] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yeah. I think so. Yeah. [01:20:49] Sandra Sarrouf: Okay. Any final thoughts? Thinking to your family? [01:20:53] Sandra Sarrouf: No. [01:20:53] Sandra Sarrouf: Your current, your past? No? [01:21:01] Abdullah Alharazneh: No. I hope it get better in Gaza, we get ceasefire and end the genocide because it's affecting almost everyone in the community in a negative way. Adding stress and making us feel uncomfortable. [01:21:19] Sandra Sarrouf: Yeah. [01:21:20] Abdullah Alharazneh: Yep. [01:21:22] Sandra Sarrouf: Well, thank you for sharing. [01:21:25] Abdullah Alharazneh: Thank you. [01:21:26] Sandra Sarrouf: For all the richness and your history. [01:21:29] Abdullah Alharazneh: Thank you. [01:21:29] Sandra Sarrouf: It's been really wonderful to sit with you. [01:21:32] Abdullah Alharazneh: Thank you. [01:21:32] Sandra Sarrouf: To listen and to learn. [01:21:33] Abdullah Alharazneh: No problem.