Adnan Saleh

[00:00:00] Ryan Tamoush: My name is Ryan Tamoush. This is the Mawtini Oral History Project. It is May 22nd, 2025, and we are interviewing from the home of... [00:00:12] Adnan Saleh: Adnan Saleh. [00:00:15] Ryan Tamoush: Adnan Saleh. Adnan can you state your name? [00:00:17] Adnan Saleh: Adnan Saleh. [00:00:18] Ryan Tamoush: And, uh, can you spell it out? [00:00:20] Adnan Saleh: Oh, A-D-N-A-N, last name Saleh, S-A-L-E-H. [00:00:25] Ryan Tamoush: Is there anything else you would like me to refer to you as? Any, any other... [00:00:29] Adnan Saleh: Adnan Saleh. [00:00:30] Ryan Tamoush: Adnan Saleh. Okay. That's beautiful. Love the name. [00:00:33] Adnan Saleh: Thank you. [Laughs.] [00:00:34] Ryan Tamoush: And we are interviewing from Adnan's house and we will begin now. It is 9:00 AM. So Adnan, tell me where are you from? [00:00:50] Adnan Saleh: I'm a Palestinian who as actually was born in what's called now Israel, and I do have an Israeli citizen, but I'm a Palestinian. [00:01:02] Ryan Tamoush: So for those of us that don't quite understand that connection, how can you be an Israeli citizen and Palestinian? [00:01:09] Adnan Saleh: After the 1948 war, a lot of Palestinians were expelled from their countries, from their or from their towns and so on. My father... And they used to actually to... So in that particular incident in our village called Ma'alul, which we're no longer there because they destroyed our homes and... [00:01:35] Ryan Tamoush: And who was they? [00:01:36] Adnan Saleh: I'm sorry? [00:01:37] Ryan Tamoush: Who was they, who destroyed your homes? [00:01:38] Adnan Saleh: The Zionists, the Zionist people, they destroyed our homes, the whole village, actually. The only thing you'll see still standing in that village, now you see two churches and one mosque. Basically, that's it. The rest, we can't even go back there and that's our land. [00:01:54] Adnan Saleh: So anyway, what they did, they took my father and other men to Lebanon, they dump him in Lebanon. At that point, at that time, my father, my father was married and he had one son, which is my older brother. He told my mother, "Do not follow me. I'm gonna come back." Meaning he doesn't want to go to Lebanon, that's his, his land. He's gonna come back. So he did came back. [00:02:21] Adnan Saleh: They actually, according to my father, they dumped him there almost five times and he came back and they catch him and dump him there. Finally, in 1948, when it became a so-called legitimate country, so a sovereign country, then they stopped expelling Palestinians. So we became refugees in our own country. So we moved to a little village called Jaffa of Nazareth, which is next to Nazareth. Basically refugees in our own country. [00:02:53] Ryan Tamoush: And what year was that? [00:02:55] Adnan Saleh: 1948. [00:02:56] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, but what year was it when your family moved to Lebanon? [00:03:00] Adnan Saleh: We never moved to, no, we never moved to- [00:03:01] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, never did, but when you were- [00:03:02] Adnan Saleh: No, they dump him there because they want the Lebanese people to take my father. [00:03:06] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [00:03:07] Adnan Saleh: Because a lot of Palestinians moved to Lebanon and Syria and Jordan. [00:03:10] Ryan Tamoush: So you guys remained there. [00:03:11] Adnan Saleh: We did not, we stay, exactly. We went back and my mother didn't follow my father. She stayed there like in a just- [00:03:17] Ryan Tamoush: And this is in Jaffa [of Nazareth]? [00:03:18] Adnan Saleh: And we moved from our village Ma'alul. [00:03:21] Ryan Tamoush: Ma'alul. [00:03:21] Adnan Saleh: Our town. That's Ma'alul. You can actually look, look into it if you like on Google. You'll see some history about it there. [00:03:28] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. What part of Palestine is this? [00:03:30] Adnan Saleh: It's next to a town called Nahlal. It's between Haifa and Nazareth. [00:03:35] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [00:03:36] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. Between Haifa and Nazareth. [00:03:37] Ryan Tamoush: Is that on the border? [00:03:40] Adnan Saleh: On the border of...? [00:03:41] Ryan Tamoush: Of Palestine and... [00:03:42] Adnan Saleh: No, it's actually in Palestine. [00:03:44] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [00:03:45] Adnan Saleh: It's still in Palestine. Haifa, you've probably never been there, but Nahlal it's a well known town. A lot of pilots live there. It's a, yeah. But we can't go there. It's not, I mean, Ma'alul it's- [00:04:02] Ryan Tamoush: And so where does the Israeli citizenship come from? How was that, how did that come into play for your family? [00:04:10] Adnan Saleh: Because if you are there, if you stayed there after 1948, now it's a sovereign country. They have to recognize you as a citizen. [00:04:20] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. That that can be very confusing for a lot of people- [00:04:23] Adnan Saleh: A lot. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. [00:04:25] Ryan Tamoush: Who don't know what that experience is like. [00:04:26] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. [00:04:26] Ryan Tamoush: Because to be of one ethnicity and being told that you have to essentially submit to another. [00:04:34] Adnan Saleh: Oh, at that time, actually on your ID, they used to say, you are Arabic and they want to discriminate, they want us to discriminate against our Christian brothers and vice versa. [00:04:50] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:04:50] Adnan Saleh: They put on the ID Arabic Muslim. [00:04:53] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:04:54] Adnan Saleh: Arabic Christian. [00:04:56] Ryan Tamoush: That is amazing. [00:04:56] Adnan Saleh: Yes. [00:04:59] Ryan Tamoush: So, what was that feeling like to be essentially marked in a certain way? It's almost as if to identify you by your religion. [00:05:07] Adnan Saleh: Oh yeah, exactly. [00:05:08] Ryan Tamoush: That sounds very familiar. [00:05:09] Adnan Saleh: Yes. [00:05:10] Ryan Tamoush: Interesting. [00:05:10] Adnan Saleh: It's absolutely right. [00:05:12] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:05:12] Adnan Saleh: They want us like, oh, he's a Christian. He's a Muslim. See, they're trying to us, to diffuse us so we can actually dislike each other. [00:05:24] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. Sow division. [00:05:25] Adnan Saleh: Luckily they were wrong, so- [00:05:27] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. And that sounds like a very common theme for some countries that want to instill control. [00:05:34] Adnan Saleh: That's correct. [00:05:35] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. So the division of deciphering an Arab Muslim and an Arab Christian, you said that created some sort of animosity between the two. [00:05:45] Adnan Saleh: That's what they wanted. [00:05:46] Ryan Tamoush: That's right. [00:05:47] Adnan Saleh: It didn't happen. No. [00:05:47] Ryan Tamoush: That's amazing. [00:05:48] Adnan Saleh: No. [00:05:48] Ryan Tamoush: What do you think binded them together? What do you think it was that... [00:05:53] Adnan Saleh: Because we're all Palestinians. [00:05:55] Ryan Tamoush: That's right. [00:05:55] Adnan Saleh: We were all refugees. We... I mean, when I say we, because I wasn't born in '48, but my parents, I should say, and their parents, they experienced when you were kicked out of your own town, your own house. My grandfather with eight kids, he will not leave his house. They destroyed the house on him and my grandmother on my mom's side, she was single mom by herself, take care of her kids. [00:06:27] Ryan Tamoush: Amazing. [00:06:27] Adnan Saleh: Yep. [00:06:28] Ryan Tamoush: And what was your mother's name? [00:06:30] Adnan Saleh: Faridi. [00:06:32] Ryan Tamoush: And how many, so you had eight, eight siblings altogether? [00:06:35] Adnan Saleh: No, that's eight, my grandmother had eight kids. [00:06:37] Ryan Tamoush: Oh wow. Wow. [00:06:38] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. No, us we're fourteen. [Laughs.] [00:06:41] Ryan Tamoush: Fourteen? [Laughs.] [00:06:41] Adnan Saleh: No they have eight- [00:06:41] Ryan Tamoush: How many brothers and sisters? [00:06:42] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. What I'm saying is she had eight, and as a woman she has to take one... Refugee. She's a refugee now in a town. She owns no land. She became a maid. She has eight kids she's got to support. And everybody was poor, just like us. There's no rich and poor in that village. We were all poor. It was wonderful actually, too. [00:07:07] Ryan Tamoush: Do you think that, so you said it was wonderful, so that- [00:07:09] Adnan Saleh: It was wonderful, to be poor, yes. [00:07:10] Ryan Tamoush: That instilled some sort of community or- [00:07:13] Adnan Saleh: Oh yes. [00:07:13] Ryan Tamoush: Or what was it? What was that kept poverty happy? [00:07:15] Adnan Saleh: Equal, equal. The class... [00:07:18] Ryan Tamoush: Everyone's equal. [00:07:19] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. There's like, today, as you know, you are up here, some up here, down below. Let's say if you are, let's say you make more money than me. You travel, let's say to Turkey, to Lebanon, to Germany. I'm poor. I don't have the money to travel. I'm talking about today, unfortunately. So this poor person down below, he wants to go see Germany also, just like everybody else talking about Germany or talking about other countries. So what, you know what they'll do? They go and take a loan from a bank to be able to see, this way they can say, I'm traveling too. [00:07:58] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:07:58] Adnan Saleh: Where then, nothing. [00:08:00] Ryan Tamoush: No one did. [00:08:01] Adnan Saleh: We had no cars. We were, you know, living in shacks basically you know the, I don't know if you've seen the old homes, how we build them with mud. [00:08:10] Ryan Tamoush: Well describe them. [00:08:11] Adnan Saleh: Mud, basically, stones, and put hay in it. The hay actually grabs the mud together and the roof made out of tin roofing and, you know, it's raining "ta-ta-ta-ta-tak" all night long. You can't sleep. [00:08:33] Ryan Tamoush: How big was your house that you split between fourteen children? [00:08:39] Adnan Saleh: [Laughs.] Oh, luckily we didn't all live together at the same time. [00:08:42] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [00:08:43] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. But I remember our first little shack, my father built for us, we were five of us I think. [00:08:50] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [00:08:51] Adnan Saleh: It was in, what, I think it was '55, 1955 or '56. I was born in 1952. So I'm 72 plus now. October 26th I'll be 73. [00:09:03] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:09:03] Adnan Saleh: And I still remember the man who built it for us. Just a little shack with the mud and the whole thing. His name is Salem Al-Musallam, and he's one of our Christian brothers. [00:09:17] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [00:09:17] Adnan Saleh: So it shows you, you see what I'm saying? I mean, when I say he built them for us, we didn't pay him for it. He, he knew how to build them, so he came and he built it for us. [00:09:26] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:09:27] Adnan Saleh: So it shows you how close we were together. [00:09:30] Ryan Tamoush: Yes. [00:09:30] Adnan Saleh: But they don't want us to be that way. [00:09:32] Ryan Tamoush: No. [00:09:34] Adnan Saleh: And I still remember his name. I'll not forget his name. Salem Al-Musallam. [00:09:37] Ryan Tamoush: And was he also a neighbor? He, he was close by? You would see him on a daily basis? [00:09:42] Adnan Saleh: Oh, oh yeah. Oh yeah. He's came and he helps anybody who wants, if they don't know how to, because you know, you should work by your hand. You're working by your hand. There's no flooring basically. Just, you know- [00:09:53] Ryan Tamoush: Before your home was built, what was your father doing? Was he living in a different home? Did he migrate from somewhere else or? [00:10:00] Adnan Saleh: Yeah, they migrate, that's from Ma'alul. [00:10:02] Ryan Tamoush: From Ma'alul. [00:10:03] Adnan Saleh: From Ma'alul. And they have land there. They had an apple orchard. [00:10:06] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [00:10:07] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. Just, yeah. Apple orchards and they have, you know, their goats and so on. My father finished the fourth grade. [00:10:12] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [00:10:13] Adnan Saleh: My mom, doesn't know how to read or write, unfortunately. [00:10:17] Ryan Tamoush: So she never had an education? [00:10:19] Adnan Saleh: Never had an education. My father- [00:10:20] Ryan Tamoush: Was that common over there? [00:10:21] Adnan Saleh: Yes. [00:10:22] Ryan Tamoush: For women not to be educated? [00:10:23] Adnan Saleh: At that time, yes. Yeah. Yeah. At that time, yes. And some of them did. But when you're poor, I mean, you have farms. You just go to the farm. My father finished fourth grade, but fourth grader at that time, just like high school now. I was talking to another person actually the other day, and she said her father finished fourth grader, Palestinian from Jaffa. He's 70. How old is he now? 78, with fourth grader. When he actually migrated to Jordan. He became a teacher. [00:11:02] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:11:02] Adnan Saleh: With fourth grader degree. [Laughs.] Fourth grade. [00:11:07] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. That is incredible. [00:11:09] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. [00:11:10] Ryan Tamoush: So that lifestyle is essentially like a homestead sort of lifestyle, almost like what you have here in your beautiful home. [00:11:17] Adnan Saleh: Thank you, thank you. [00:11:18] Ryan Tamoush: With everything that you, it seems like you, you can live off of your own land here and by your own efforts. [00:11:24] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. [00:11:25] Ryan Tamoush: And that was common. And that was like the overall feeling of growing up in Palestine. [00:11:31] Adnan Saleh: Oh definitely. [00:11:32] Ryan Tamoush: And in your village. [00:11:33] Adnan Saleh: You do your own things. [00:11:34] Ryan Tamoush: And everyone helps each other, just like Salem. [00:11:35] Adnan Saleh: Everyone helps each other. The same thing. When we, you and I, we discuss it before we spoke on the microphone here, regarding people pay cash for their homes or they don't like to owe money. It starts from the beginning. Let's say you have five brothers, so when you are in 10th grade, or assuming you go actually that high or to high school, even, you start helping each other. Building a house for the first older brother. So it might take eight years, ten years, but we live on top of each other. Not fancy homes, no villas, none of that stuff. You live on top of each other. [00:12:20] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:12:20] Adnan Saleh: So, yeah, because your brother, once he gets married, he's gonna live there. Not for the sisters, because the sisters, the other families take care of their sons. Do the same thing. [00:12:32] Ryan Tamoush: That's right. [00:12:33] Adnan Saleh: So it's really for the sons. [00:12:34] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:12:34] Adnan Saleh: So you're always building a house for someone there. [00:12:37] Ryan Tamoush: And that starts at what age? [00:12:39] Adnan Saleh: Oh, ten years old, fifteen years old. You just- [00:12:42] Ryan Tamoush: You begin, you begin building the house that you're going to move out to. [00:12:44] Adnan Saleh: You're staying here. Exactly. You're staying here. [00:12:45] Ryan Tamoush: You're staying here, but this is gonna your space for your wife and kids. [00:12:49] Adnan Saleh: And live above us. [00:12:50] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:12:51] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. And they allowed us to build only up to four stories. [00:12:55] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [00:12:55] Adnan Saleh: Meaning without demolishing the house. [00:12:58] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. So when you say they allowed us, it's more of a structural, like it's the only, the most possible structure that you can do. [00:13:05] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. Because they give you a small land. [00:13:07] Ryan Tamoush: That's right. [00:13:07] Adnan Saleh: You know when- [00:13:08] Ryan Tamoush: And who's "they" that gives you that? [00:13:09] Adnan Saleh: The, I will call them Zionist country. [00:13:13] Ryan Tamoush: That's right. [00:13:13] Adnan Saleh: The Israeli country, they give us, they gave us only, actually, I should go back, track it back a little bit. We moved to a big mountain. It's overlooking Nazareth. That's what they, it's called Jaffa of Nazareth. There's Jaffa, next to Tel Aviv. And this one, Jaffa of Nazareth. And we, everybody got a little plot and they said, "Okay, that's where we're gonna live." We had no idea who it belonged to, this land. And then later on it became it was owned by an individual from Nazareth. His name Al-Kenj, that's his last name, Al-Kenj. They, people just built the shacks and stayed there. [00:13:58] Adnan Saleh: They said, "Well, you have no choice. You have to sell it to these guys." So everybody got a dunum. A dunum, which is 5,000, 10,000 square feet. Or half a dunum. It depends how much you have. So you can't spread this way to build for your homes. Well, you know, dunum is very small. [00:14:14] Ryan Tamoush: That's right. [00:14:14] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. So you can't spread. You have to live on top of each other. [00:14:19] Ryan Tamoush: Of course. [00:14:20] Adnan Saleh: And later on, as for now, the Israeli government start to encroach on our villages, taking more land from us. This way we would expand. This way we go up. [00:14:34] Ryan Tamoush: Up. Wow. [00:14:36] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. [00:14:37] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. So due to the political turmoil and the, I guess you, for that enforcement, it forced you guys to build up instead of out. [00:14:47] Adnan Saleh: Well, exactly. And stay there, stay where you are. [00:14:49] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. [00:14:50] Adnan Saleh: So when there is, since the creation of this country, 1948, unless I'm wrong, last time I looked, they built 54 Jewish towns. Zero for us. [00:15:04] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:15:05] Adnan Saleh: I might be wrong. Long time ago I had 54 towns. But we can Google that and just check it and I know it. If it's not even more than that. I'm not counting even the settlements. [00:15:17] Ryan Tamoush: That's incredible. [00:15:18] Adnan Saleh: And us nothing, they're just encroaching on us taking our land. [00:15:21] Ryan Tamoush: So it forced you to build up and so- [00:15:24] Adnan Saleh: Or leave. [00:15:25] Ryan Tamoush: So you started with five siblings at that time when you were building your oldest brother's house? [00:15:30] Adnan Saleh: No bathrooms, mind you, no bathrooms? [00:15:32] Ryan Tamoush: No. Okay. [00:15:33] Adnan Saleh: No bathrooms. [00:15:33] Ryan Tamoush: Where, what did you do for bathroom? [00:15:35] Adnan Saleh: [Laughs.] Okay, well think of if you live in this mountain here. [00:15:38] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [00:15:39] Adnan Saleh: Because you know, one house here, one house there. No trees. Because the Middle East doesn't have trees like us here. There's big, big boulders. [00:15:48] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. [00:15:48] Adnan Saleh: Us boys. Go find a boulder. [00:15:53] Ryan Tamoush: That's right. [00:15:53] Adnan Saleh: And behind the boulder, that's your bathroom basically. And on the way there. I hate to say it, but I will say it. When you're walking there, you look for something to clean your butt with. [00:16:05] Ryan Tamoush: Of course. [00:16:06] Adnan Saleh: Smooth rock, maybe. [00:16:07] Ryan Tamoush: Smooth rock? [00:16:08] Adnan Saleh: Smooth rock sometimes. Depends if it's in the winter, you have some weed, so you'd grab weed on the way there. [00:16:15] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, so it was a seasonal event? [00:16:16] Adnan Saleh: Seasonal, exactly. In the summer, sometimes people when they eat the watermelon or cantaloupe, you know, the rind of the- [00:16:26] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, yes, of course. Oh, that's luxury. That's like a wet wipe. [00:16:30] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. And the way you grab it with you, and when you, you just wipe it off. [00:16:33] Ryan Tamoush: That's perfect. [00:16:34] Adnan Saleh: For the sisters, for the girls. My mother, she built the little shack basically with a cloth. And you know the stuff they use for cats now? Except then it was ashes, basically. [00:16:47] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, you're talking, so like a kitty litter. [00:16:51] Adnan Saleh: Kitty litter. Exactly. [00:16:51] Ryan Tamoush: So you're using ashes to absorb. [00:16:53] Adnan Saleh: You're using ashes, absorb, because girls can't go behind the boulder. [00:16:58] Ryan Tamoush: No, of course not. That's for the boys. [00:16:59] Adnan Saleh: That's for the boys. [00:17:00] Ryan Tamoush: That's the boys' bathroom. Yeah. [00:17:01] Adnan Saleh: That's the boys' bathroom. This is for my sisters only. Us, you find your way man. [00:17:05] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:17:05] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. [00:17:06] Ryan Tamoush: That is extremely resourceful to use ashes that you would use for heating I'm assuming and then- [00:17:13] Adnan Saleh: Uh-huh. Cooking, for cooking. [00:17:14] Ryan Tamoush: Repurpose the ashes for the restroom for the girls. [00:17:16] Adnan Saleh: That's correct. [00:17:17] Ryan Tamoush: That is incredibly resourceful. [00:17:19] Adnan Saleh: I know. I know, who would think of that. [00:17:21] Ryan Tamoush: With what limited space you have and resources, you've made luxury- [00:17:26] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. [00:17:26] Ryan Tamoush: Out of a cantaloupe. [00:17:28] Adnan Saleh: Thank you. [Laughs.] [00:17:28] Ryan Tamoush: And out of ashes. [00:17:30] Adnan Saleh: Cantaloupe, watermelon, and ashes. You're absolutely right. Yeah. [00:17:34] Ryan Tamoush: Wow, that is amazing. [00:17:35] Adnan Saleh: And we had no electricity. No water until 1975. [00:17:43] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:17:43] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. 1975. Finally we had water. [00:17:47] Ryan Tamoush: And so during that time, in 1975, what was the development that occurred that allowed for plumbing and electricity? [00:17:57] Adnan Saleh: Because there's, you know, they're improving, they start requiring that now. [00:18:01] Ryan Tamoush: There wasn't one specific event that allowed that sort of infrastructure to be built. [00:18:05] Adnan Saleh: No. Now we have mayors. Now we have our own... Yeah, exactly. So they start demanding from the government. If the Israeli government, like, hey, look at your villages. Look how beautiful they are. They have your own parks. You have, I mean, if you go there, you can tell it's a Jewish town or an Arabic town in a blink. [00:18:26] Ryan Tamoush: One has a swing set, one doesn't. [00:18:29] Adnan Saleh: Nothing exactly. And the parks, they have beautiful parks. We have zero parks. So a lot of us, we go actually use their parks. [00:18:37] Ryan Tamoush: So who are these mayors? Were they Palestinians? [00:18:41] Adnan Saleh: Palestinians. Yeah, yeah, now we have start elections and so on. [00:18:44] Ryan Tamoush: So you did have formal elections in Jaffa [of Nazareth]? [00:18:46] Adnan Saleh: Yes, that's correct. Yes. And a lot of villages now we have, start having elections. But they gave us very minimal amount of money to improve. They don't want it to really get there a hundred percent. No. [00:18:58] Ryan Tamoush: So how did you, how did your town, your community, how did they create elections? How did that election process go? Was their campaigning? [00:19:09] Adnan Saleh: Oh yeah. Just normal, campaigning, the whole... Usually, as you know, in the Arabic or a lot of Middle Eastern, we do tribes. Us we had no tribes. We have last names, basically. So if you have a well-known last name that mayor becomes, that person becomes the mayor. Will have more people to vote for him. [00:19:38] Ryan Tamoush: Okay, so that was the typical candidate? [00:19:40] Adnan Saleh: That's correct. [00:19:41] Ryan Tamoush: And what made a last name strong. What made a last name influential? Was it a business or was it, like what caused that last name to be strong? [00:19:50] Adnan Saleh: A larger family. [00:19:51] Ryan Tamoush: Larger family. [00:19:52] Adnan Saleh: Actually, I should go back. We start with a communist mayor first. [00:19:58] Ryan Tamoush: Interesting. [00:19:58] Adnan Saleh: Yes. The reason being, actually at that time... I was a communist too, by the way. Yeah. The reason being at that time, that's the only group you can join legally is communism. In Israel, it was a communism actually. [00:20:17] Ryan Tamoush: So in Israel, they only allowed Arabs to join the communist party. [00:20:20] Adnan Saleh: If you want to, you can join the communism party, [00:20:22] Ryan Tamoush: But you couldn't, what other parties were there? [00:20:25] Adnan Saleh: We're not gonna mention the names, but you can't, but this one you can. [00:20:29] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, interesting. [00:20:30] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. This one you can, so even till now, there's... We had even a newspaper. Communist, newspaper, Al-Itihad. Called Al-Itihad. And a lot of them, they used to come and recruit us. The older people recruit us saying, "Hey, come on, we need communists." "No, you guys don't believe in God. You don't believe in this." But we liked it because, guess what? They have ping pongs, they have pool tables. You know, we go and have fun there, so why not? [00:21:00] Ryan Tamoush: So the Communist party, they provided community centers, you said? [00:21:07] Adnan Saleh: Exactly, yeah. On a small basis. Nothing fancy, but you know, you have in the evening you go there and play pool. [00:21:14] Ryan Tamoush: Well, let me backtrack one more time to these elections. So, what was like the deadlines normally, were they like extended campaigns? Were they months long, years, or...? [00:21:27] Adnan Saleh: No. Within two or three weeks. [00:21:29] Ryan Tamoush: Two or three weeks? [00:21:29] Adnan Saleh: Two or three. Yeah. There's no, not, not like here, start from- [00:21:33] Ryan Tamoush: Was there a lot of competition between last names or was there animosity or drama? [00:21:38] Adnan Saleh: No. No. No. And we respect the mayor, we thought the mayor, oh, he's God. You just know the family tells you to vote for this person. We say, okay, we'll vote for that person. [00:21:46] Ryan Tamoush: And that's because that last name had a strong family, had a successful- [00:21:50] Adnan Saleh: Strong family, they're well known, sometimes. Good people. Like there's a big name actually there, when I was growing up. What's his name? Cana'an. [00:22:00] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, Cana'an. [00:22:01] Adnan Saleh: Cana'an. Yeah. [00:22:02] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, that's a very common name. Yes. [00:22:03] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. Cana'an is, yeah. And he was a communist. He's on our side, so everybody voted for him. Then communism start going down a little bit, unfortunately, then something else came up. [00:22:18] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah, of course. And, I know you said you, you didn't wanna mention the names of the other political parties that were available only to Israelis, is that correct? [00:22:26] Adnan Saleh: Available? No, outside of Israel. [00:22:28] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, okay. Yeah. And so, which other parties were there? It was the communist party, and if you don't- [00:22:33] Adnan Saleh: Oh, they have Likud, which, yeah, so, yeah, they have Likud, they have, what else? They have a lot of them, but it's all belong to Zionism, not to benefit us. Even though we have thirteen people in the Knesset now, as you know. What are they doing for us? Nothing. Nobody even asking to join their government. They joined for a little bit, then they kicked them out. [00:22:56] Ryan Tamoush: But it sounds like, you found benefits in communism. [00:22:58] Adnan Saleh: For us, as kids at the time, of course. Oh yeah, yeah. Pool, soccer. Yeah. [00:23:04] Ryan Tamoush: And there was no, because people relate communism to, you know more influential powers- [00:23:11] Adnan Saleh: Atheism, basically. Yeah. I don't believe, you don't believe in God. [00:23:14] Ryan Tamoush: But that wasn't true for Palestinian communists. [00:23:17] Adnan Saleh: I mean, some of the people, probably the religious ones, they say, "Oh, don't go there. Don't go there." But, "What do you mean don't go there? What are you offering us? Beside your long beard." Exactly. Yeah. So you're a kid, you wanna play, you wanna have fun. Yeah. Sometimes, some kids I know they never told their parents even they're communist. Because, "Oh, they don't believe in God!" They never mentioned, God, even. I've never really went to a communism, communist party meeting or rally. They never even mentioned God or... [00:23:49] Ryan Tamoush: They truly keep state and religion separate. [00:23:51] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. [00:23:52] Ryan Tamoush: That is interesting. [00:23:52] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. We never, they never said, "Oh, guess what? You're communist now, you don't believe in God." I've never, I've never heard them saying that. We went on for actually a few, even a few years that the communist party was actually the mayor of... But again, now the bad part, this mayor has to go to the Israeli government and ask him for funds to take care of his village. Yeah. How much they are they going to give him? Just like they give the mayor in a Jewish town? No. Moneywise. [00:24:19] Ryan Tamoush: Moneywise. It was just not there. [00:24:21] Adnan Saleh: Oh yeah. They give him some, but come on. [00:24:23] Ryan Tamoush: And I'm sure that gave Israel, did that give them like a reason to stigmatize you more because you're communist? [00:24:30] Adnan Saleh: Not, not really because, no. [00:24:32] Ryan Tamoush: Did they use that? Did they weaponize that connection? [00:24:34] Adnan Saleh: No. No. I don't think that, no, because they allow us actually to demonstrate in the rallies. Again, not in the Jewish towns, but in our own town in Nazareth. We don't leave and go to their towns, you know. [Makes killing sound.] We'll be gone in a second. [00:24:50] Ryan Tamoush: What's that mean? [Makes killing sound.] What does that, what does that mean? [00:24:52] Adnan Saleh: You'll be dead. You'll be gone. You'll be in prison, I mean, yeah. Oh yeah. [00:24:57] Ryan Tamoush: So I guess that brings us to our next topic is, what was the overall climate like, this is, I guess, I suppose in the seventies, amongst an Israel force being present and dictating the terms of your political climate, your economic climate, was that the case or what was that like in Jaffa [of Nazareth]? [00:25:19] Adnan Saleh: Well, it can, more economic wise, most of us worked for a Jewish person, and I think at that time, it wasn't bad. Us, you know, working for them on their holidays, they give us... But we don't, most of us don't live there. Let's say if you work in Haifa. You live in Nazareth. You just basically commute there. And between the commute, they used to have a checkpoint from most of Arabic villages to a Jewish, big Jewish town like Tel Aviv, Haifa, Nahariya, Netanya. [00:26:01] Adnan Saleh: So soldier of 18-year-old kid... Let's say I'm going from Nazareth to Haifa for a job. In the middle there, before you entering Haifa, way before you enter Haifa, you have to, there's a checkpoint, you have to stop. Not just in the West Bank. We're talking about, West Bank is completely different than us. Us, we're a citizen, the whole shebang. [00:26:23] Adnan Saleh: So the bus, because we used to take buses, not cars. Most of us, there's no cars. Take the bus. Stop the bus. And there's a little kid, 18-year-old kid with his Uzi. He comes up, he said, "All the Arabs, down. Because we had, the reason he said Arabs is because we do have some Jewish people on the bus, not just us. But we're coming, came, start from a Arabic town. [00:26:51] Adnan Saleh: And you know, there's two Nazareth, I don't know if you know that or not. We have an Upper Nazareth, the new one. Lower Nazareth is the biblical one. The Nazareth, Nazareth. In upper Nazareth, that's where they bring a lot of Jewish people from Russia. So they put them there. So they have a lot of Jewish people in that bus. So us just go down, just to humiliate us basically. "Where are you going? Where do you work at? Okay, go." And you always have to have your ID with you. [00:27:21] Ryan Tamoush: The one that deciphers if you're a Christian or Muslim. [00:27:23] Adnan Saleh: Thank you. Exactly. You always have to have that with you. If they catch you without it [inaudible]. [00:27:28] Ryan Tamoush: Did the checkpoints, the military that ran, was there different treatment from Israeli forces to a Christian or a Muslim, or was it all the same? [00:27:42] Adnan Saleh: It was all the same. [00:27:42] Ryan Tamoush: All the Arabs... [00:27:43] Adnan Saleh: Exactly, yeah. They just, he said, because, "All the Arabs down." So he didn't say Muslim. He didn't say Christian. He just say all the Arabs down. Yeah. Down. You wait in line, one at a time. They ask you questions. I mean, that comes with the territory, you know, when you go to work, if you start eight o'clock, meaning you have to leave early because you know what's gonna happen at checkpoint, you're going to stop there. [00:28:06] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. Wow. [00:28:07] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. And all that stuff I'm talking about, before 1976. Because I came here in 1976. Yeah. [00:28:16] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. So what was the main reason that you left in 1976? Was there anything that might've initiated your migration or was it just- [00:28:32] Adnan Saleh: Opportunities. Freedom. And I used to work in a restaurant, actually, I worked in a hotel in Nahariya. And I moved to Jerusalem in a hotel called Diplomat, the Diplomat Hotel. And a lot of American tourists, they used to come to the hotel. And as servers, we'd talk to them, "Oh, where are you from?" "Oh, I'm from California." "Oh yeah." Chit-chat. And then become friendly with them and they say, "Oh yeah, we live in Florida, in California. We have this house and oh..." Show us picture of their swimming pool. "Oh, this is, this car from my daughter. This [inaudible]." [00:29:12] Adnan Saleh: What? You have a swimming pool for yourself?! In the whole village we don't even have a pool for us to pay for. Cars? What? "Yeah, me, my son and daughter..." So that kind of stories we heard a lot. I said, "Wow, do these people even work? How did they make some money? Did they grow on trees?" So even in the restaurants, we used to have kids who comes, nineteen-years-old, twenty-years-old kid, come in the restaurant and eat, but they're staying in the hotel. And they eat and they give us a credit card to pay for the meal. [00:29:48] Adnan Saleh: We used to go to the kitchen, delivery. [Whispers.] "Come on guys. Come on, come!" "What?" "See this guy sitting on that table?" "Yeah." "He's a millionaire." "What do you mean?" "Yeah, he's got a credit card!" We thought if you have a credit card, you're a millionaire. Wallah. [00:30:04] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. What's your opinion of that now? [00:30:06] Adnan Saleh: [Laughs.] You got a lot of debts. [00:30:09] Ryan Tamoush: That's right. Not so much of a millionaire. [00:30:10] Adnan Saleh: You have a lot of... Exactly yeah, but that's what we thought. Wow. "With that card he can pay?!" Because we had no idea. I mean, like I told you, us, we pay cash for everything. It's not, there's no credit. Then. There's no credit card. [00:30:21] Ryan Tamoush: So were these tourists that were frequenting this hotel that you worked at? [00:30:25] Adnan Saleh: They used to come in groups actually. Yeah. [00:30:27] Ryan Tamoush: Were they diplomats as well, or expats? [00:30:29] Adnan Saleh: No, just basically just people coming, groups coming from, like Christian groups. Evangelicals from the United States, from Europe. But we have mostly, we got from the United States, a lot from America actually. [00:30:42] Ryan Tamoush: So the stories that you'd hear from those tours and photos that they would share of where they came from- [00:30:49] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. Encouraged us to come here. Oh, yeah. [00:30:52] Ryan Tamoush: What year did you leave Jerusalem? Or I guess we could talk more, how was, where were you living in Jerusalem? Was it like an apartment or-? [00:30:59] Adnan Saleh: No, when I moved to Jerusalem at that time, actually the hotel provided us the board, place to sleep. They gave us a place to sleep. [00:31:08] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. And was that a good treatment altogether? You said it wasn't bad working with them. [00:31:14] Adnan Saleh: Oh, no workwise, no, no problem. Yeah. Yeah. No work workwise. I mean, I really never exp-, the only time I experienced [pause] harassment, I worked for the Shalom Hotel in Jerusalem. It's by the Herzl, Herzl Mount, Mount Herzl. And there we have union. [00:31:36] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [00:31:37] Adnan Saleh: We had the union, actually the union in Israel is very strong, by the way. [00:31:40] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [00:31:40] Adnan Saleh: Way stronger. [00:31:41] Ryan Tamoush: Labor unions? [00:31:42] Adnan Saleh: Labor unions. I mean, and we had two of us in the union. One was a Jewish guy and me in the union. We're representing almost 150 employees or so. You know, the housekeeping, the front desk, the cooks, shifts, you name it. And, at one point, one of the housekeeper ladies, most, all the housekeepers actually, the ladies or the men, they're Palestinians from the West Bank. Because the West Bank is close to Jerusalem now, so a lot of them from the West Bank, they work there. [00:32:17] Adnan Saleh: And as a union member, the employer is supposed to pay your medical insurance. At that time, we have what they called, still till now probably, kupat holim. That's the main insurance or places to go to if you're sick. And every payroll, they give us a stamp. Meaning, let's say, you got a stamp end of June, they give you, end of June, you got paid, you get a stamp for July. Meaning your dues are paid for insurance. So one day housekeeper lady went to kupat holim, to say. "I'm sick," blah, blah. And they looked at her and they said, "No, you haven't, your dues are not paid." She had no idea, she put a stamp. She said, "What do you mean, I have insurance from the hotel." They said, "No, your hotel is not paying anything." [00:33:14] Adnan Saleh: We found out they're not paying no money, actually. Yes. So at that day, me and this guy, the Jewish guy from the union, we talked to all the employees. We told them, "Okay, we're gonna strike." So I said, "We'll have like the dining room, we'll put the water on the table, everything..." Because we have groups. They come and eat and leave. "And 12 o'clock, we all leave." 12 o'clock, "Come in," and [makes sound] we all left in the front. [00:33:51] Adnan Saleh: The owner, the son, the owner then went crazy. "What do you mean?" I said, "No. You didn't pay this lady, you haven't paid her insurance. She went to, her daughter was sick..." I think her daughter was sick, "...and wasn't paid." So back and forth, back and forth. Then finally we talked to the manager, the manager said, "We'll take care of it." By after two hours' negotiation. And then everybody went back to work and we negotiated for the next day or so. We made sure it's gonna be paid for. [00:34:25] Adnan Saleh: So the apartment I was living in was being paid by the hotel where I was living. So the son of the owner, the owner's name is Ovadia Levi, his son came to me to the room with his gun on the side here. He showed me he has a gun. He said, "Why did you strike?" I told him, "You know, whatever happened, blah, blah, blah." So I can tell he is threatening me. I said, "I'm done with this man." The next day I just quit and I went to another hotel. [00:34:57] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:34:57] Adnan Saleh: That's the, yeah, because... [00:34:58] Ryan Tamoush: And that was the owner. [00:35:00] Adnan Saleh: The son of the owner. [00:35:01] Ryan Tamoush: The son of the owner. [00:35:01] Adnan Saleh: The son of the owner, yeah. Like, "Who do you think yourself?" [00:35:05] Ryan Tamoush: Brandishing a pistol? [00:35:05] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. "Who do you think yourself? You have a strike in my hotel." So when I saw the gun, I figured, you know what, next time he might just [laughs], yeah. [00:35:15] Ryan Tamoush: That's incredible. [00:35:16] Adnan Saleh: I know. Yeah. So that's the only time actually it was, for me, was very scary, actually. [00:35:21] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. And do you feel like the climate there in Jerusalem, you didn't feel like you could have gone to the authorities over someone brandishing a pistol at you? [00:35:32] Adnan Saleh: No, because he didn't threaten me. He's allowed to carry a gun. Because he was in the army. He's allowed to carry. [00:35:35] Ryan Tamoush: Were you allowed to carry a gun? [00:35:37] Adnan Saleh: No. Oh, no. No. You're kidding? No. [00:35:38] Ryan Tamoush: So that's quite, that's quite an interesting predicament. [00:35:41] Adnan Saleh: Definitely. Yeah. [00:35:41] Ryan Tamoush: What other choice do you have? [00:35:43] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. But I saw the gun. I figured, it scared. I, no, he never really threatened me or, like, but he came with it. There's a reason for it. It's enough for me to see it, to say, "You know what? I'm leaving man." I'm 20 years old, 21, 22, I said, "I'm not, I don't need this." Yeah. [00:36:02] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. That's quite, that's- [00:36:04] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. [00:36:04] Ryan Tamoush: I mean that'd be unnerving for anyone to face, especially given the fact that you already feel vulnerable because you're not allowed to own a pistol. You don't have the same rights as him. [00:36:15] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. No. [00:36:17] Ryan Tamoush: And so if that were the case, if he were to use it, there'd probably be a good possibility that nothing would happen to him. [00:36:23] Adnan Saleh: Oh, no. He is a mafia. He was a mafia at that time too, actually. [00:36:25] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. Mafia. [00:36:26] Adnan Saleh: Oh yeah. [00:36:27] Ryan Tamoush: So mafia in Jerusalem? [00:36:28] Adnan Saleh: Oh yeah. [00:36:29] Ryan Tamoush: Is this a religious sect, like a mafia that's... What is it based in? [00:36:34] Adnan Saleh: A lot of, go ahead. [00:36:35] Ryan Tamoush: Go, oh yeah. [00:36:36] Adnan Saleh: No, but the Jewish, they have, let's see. Russian mafia. They have a Moroccan mafia, meaning Jewish from Morocco mafia. At that time, the Jewish Moroccan mafia was very strong. [00:36:49] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:36:50] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. Now I hear, I hear at least, they have Russian mafia is very strong there. [00:36:56] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:36:57] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. Oh yeah. They have mafias easily. Yeah. [00:36:59] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. And so they ran hotels, they ran essentially anything. [00:37:03] Adnan Saleh: They're, they're... Do whatever it takes. [00:37:05] Ryan Tamoush: And how were Palestinians viewed in the eyes of the Jewish Moroccan mafia? Russian mafia? [00:37:11] Adnan Saleh: No, the mafia, they couldn't care less about who is a Palestinian, who is Jewish, it doesn't matter. To them, they're just mafiosos you stay away from. [00:37:17] Ryan Tamoush: Would you be allowed to join that mafia? [00:37:19] Adnan Saleh: No. [Laughs.] I don't think they trust you. The same thing, the same thing. They want even, well, you don't want to be even be a soldier. They're not gonna trust you. But the Bedouin, as you know, they have to go in Israel, and the Druze as you, I don't know if you knew that or not. [00:37:37] Ryan Tamoush: Yes. [00:37:37] Adnan Saleh: The Druze. The Druze, they have to go to the army. Because their people signed an agreement. And the Bedouins, they can. Then don't have to, but they can. And a lot of Bedouins actually go to the army. [00:37:51] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. But the Druze were required to go? [00:37:54] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. Exactly, yeah. Exactly, yeah. And a lot of Bedouins I talked to, I know one gentleman actually from there, I talked to him, I said [inaudible]. He said, "To improve my life in this country." He said, "I don't go there just because I want to kill Arabic people. No, I want to..." Which he did. He was actually at his time, he was the youngest school principal in Israel. This guy, he is a Bedouin. An Israeli Bedouin. [00:38:24] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:38:24] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. [00:38:26] Ryan Tamoush: So, is there anything else that you'd like to share about living in Palestine before we move forward into your migration? What was the other things that, any notable, memorable experiences? [00:38:40] Adnan Saleh: Oh, yeah, are you kidding? I'm so glad, so, so glad, I was born there. [00:38:46] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. Why is that? [00:38:47] Adnan Saleh: Because the way we grew up. Where here, you look at that kid, that kid grows up only with his mom, brother, sister, and babysitter. Here. That's it. There you have thousands of kids to play with. You're always on the street. You could, they couldn't care less if they fall down, you're bleeding. Now, "Oh honey, don't touch this. Honey, don't touch that." I mean, because I see, you know, people, the way they raise their kids here, and I'm glad I wasn't born like this. [00:39:25] Adnan Saleh: And, but at one point we used to see people, like a bicycle. We used to tell my mother, "Can you buy us a bicycle?" She used to say, "Oh, it's for the rich people, not for us." We thought, the rich people, how did they look like? We have no idea. Oh, that's for the rich people, the bicycle. Like if you play soccer--excuse me--we used to make our own soccer goal, ball with, from cloths and, nothing, I mean, very hard, as you know, it's not, yeah. We have shoes, we have no sh-, we have one shoes to go to school to basically. And when you get home, you take it off. But it was fun because everybody was poor. [00:40:06] Adnan Saleh: And at one point, all of a sudden my older brother became, he finished eighth grade, he became a mechanic and he had a, one of those big Volkswagen bus. And the whole big, village that, he's the only one with that car. "Tuk, tuk, tuk, tuk, tuk, tuk, tuk." You can hear him a mile away coming from home. So each time a woman gets pregnant or, I mean, she wants to have a baby, deliver a baby. It happens at night. Knock on our door. My brother take them to the hospital. [00:40:42] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. [00:40:43] Adnan Saleh: So at one point my mother. She start yelling, she start yelling at one point. "Don't you understand? Start having babies at daytime, not at night!" [Laughs.] Like she can, like they can have it at night. [00:40:55] Ryan Tamoush: Something would happen to it. [00:40:56] Adnan Saleh: Yeah, like, because you know, they wake her up. Because we all live in the same room, not, he doesn't have his own room. We all live there. I mean, to me it was so much fun. It's just, think about us poor people. Let's say you want to eat an egg this morning, but you go to your fri-, there's no such a thing fridge. You're out of eggs. You knock on your neighbors. "Do you have two eggs?" "Sure. There you go." "You have onion or garlic or..." It was really, it's amazing. Now when I go back, unfortunately, things changed. Yeah. [00:41:27] Ryan Tamoush: Alright, just give a moment. I'm just going to change battery. [00:41:29] Adnan Saleh: No problem. [00:41:29] Ryan Tamoush: We're going to pause here and I'm going to jump back to some of these topics. [00:41:32] Ryan Tamoush: All right, well, we're back on. [00:41:35] Adnan Saleh: Okay. [00:41:36] Ryan Tamoush: Had a battery change there. But yeah, so we were talking about, procreation in the daytime, because- [00:41:44] Adnan Saleh: [Laughs.] That's what we think. [00:41:45] Ryan Tamoush: You had tight quarters, everyone lived together. [00:41:48] Adnan Saleh: That's exactly. Yeah. [00:41:49] Ryan Tamoush: So, your neighbors were essentially attached to your house, or how close were they to you? [00:41:54] Adnan Saleh: No, from here probably to that little shack. [00:41:56] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. So, a good 20 feet. [00:41:57] Adnan Saleh: Yeah, you have your own, yeah you have your own little yard. You have your own yard. Yeah. [00:42:01] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. This is what's been granted to you, this is what you're permitted for. [00:42:04] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And most of us, they have a primitive compound, we call a primitive compound. [00:42:10] Ryan Tamoush: This is in Jaffa? [00:42:11] Adnan Saleh: This is in Jaffa of Nazareth. Yes, after leaving Ma'aloul. Yeah. [00:42:15] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. And so, if it was time to get busy, if you know- [00:42:20] Adnan Saleh: That's what we think at least. We lived in one bedroom, an outdoor bath, and an enclosed patio. Meaning from the bedroom, you go through the enclosed patio, outside from the patio, to the outdoor bath. [00:42:37] Adnan Saleh: And when we grow up, we start, you know, tell ourselves, "How did my parents, when did they make those babies?" Fourteen of us. I mean, she miscarried like five times. So you're talking about, it would have been a lot of kids. Yeah. So I think, we think, it's when my father used to take a shower in the kitchen, next to the kitchen with a cloth. Basically- [00:43:05] Ryan Tamoush: A curtain of some sort. [00:43:06] Adnan Saleh: A curtain, not cloth. Yeah. And when he gets to his back, we used to hear, "Call your mom to rub my back!" We used to hear, we're outside playing. "Oh, mom, mom, mom. Now, go rub my dad's back!" We think that's what happen. [00:43:20] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, okay. So, rubbing the back time was- [00:43:23] Adnan Saleh: Rubbing back time, plus that's all we have... [00:43:25] Ryan Tamoush: It's time for another brother or sister. [00:43:26] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. Yeah. [Laughs.] Exactly. Yeah. [00:43:29] Ryan Tamoush: That's great. And that's, I mean, because you're building on top of your house for the next oldest brother. [00:43:33] Adnan Saleh: Now it's the next older brother, Adel, yeah. [00:43:35] Ryan Tamoush: And so when that was built. [00:43:37] Adnan Saleh: Then you start for the second one. [00:43:39] Ryan Tamoush: And so he had his own curtain? He had his own curtain? [00:43:43] Adnan Saleh: No, he's got two, three bedrooms, so he's okay. [00:43:46] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [00:43:47] Adnan Saleh: His first house was a small, small house. It was like a, what do you call, a manufactured home here. That's his first. But then moved on. He built one house. And then start building for his kids. They have more privacy now. They have bathrooms, but the old bathrooms, you know? Where you with the hole, you point. [00:44:06] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. So in the daytime, when everyone's outside, that was when you had your privacy, huh? [00:44:11] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. That's the time to do it, for at least, in my parents, we think that's what happened. Yes. And I believe it did. [00:44:18] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. And this is all between the years of 1952 and 1975. [00:44:23] Adnan Saleh: '76. I moved in 1976, but then, yeah, I moved here in 1976. [00:44:27] Ryan Tamoush: Alright. And so when you left Jaffa [of Nazareth], that was '76 to Jerusalem, and Jerusalem...? [00:44:34] Adnan Saleh: No, actually I left home... When did I leave home? [Pause.] To Jerusalem? First, I went to Nahariya, which is on the border of Lebanon and Israel, there's a town called Nahariya. I worked there for the Delphin Hotel. And then I moved, then they closed that hotel. It was purchased by a company called the Diplomat Hotel. [00:45:02] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [00:45:03] Adnan Saleh: And the Diplomat Hotel told us, if you wanna move to Jerusalem, we'll be glad to give you room and board to live there if you want to work for us. So we moved from there to Jerusalem. I worked at the Diplomat Hotel. [00:45:16] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. Yep. And that Diplomat Hotel wasn't actually for diplomats, it was actually for like tourists. [00:45:21] Adnan Saleh: Yeah, it's for tourists. Yeah. That's the name, the Diplomat Hotel. They were owned by two, owned by two brothers. Two brothers at the time. And then- [00:45:28] Ryan Tamoush: And so you left that hotel because of that incident with your boss's son? [00:45:31] Adnan Saleh: No the other one, that was Shalom Hotel. [00:45:33] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, that was the Shalom. That's right. Shalom Hotel. [00:45:36] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. Diplomat, I stayed there, let's see. Then from there, went to the Shalom Hotel. Then in the Shalom Hotel, before I joined the union, we had 1973 war. So then now we have to go back home. [00:45:54] Ryan Tamoush: What was the 1973 war? [00:45:56] Adnan Saleh: 1973 war that when the Egyptian attacked the Israeli, which is an October Yom Kippur. That's '73 war. That's when they took most of Sinai and so on, the Egyptian, because they surprised the Israelis on Yom Kippur. Yeah. That's in 1973 war. So then tourism stopped. [00:46:22] Adnan Saleh: So went back home. My parents said, "Okay, well it's time for you to settle down, maybe." My brother, when he built his house, underneath him, there's some kind of a, like he wants to put maybe a store or two store down below. And they said, "Okay, you can have that. Go fix it." [00:46:40] Adnan Saleh: I said, "Man, what am I doing here?" So that was 1973. I was living in my old, my brother's old house, the manufactured home. And I did find a job. I went back to my old job doing, building windows and doors and installing them, actually, for a Jewish family of two brothers also, in Haifa. [00:47:09] Adnan Saleh: And after six months, you know, tourism start coming back. And I'm fixing, down below my brother, there's a little store that's going to be my house, and get married and stay there. And I don't want to do that because I want to get my dream. And one day... My mother used to come in the morning, wake me up with a, you know, make me lunch and go to work. Take the bus. And that day she came in... No, the day before I called my old job at the Sharon Hotel and our manager, he was actually a Palestinian guy from Lud. His name is Akram. [00:47:46] Adnan Saleh: So I called him, I said, "Akram, how is work? Can I come back." He said, "Can you do dinner tomorrow night?" I said, Yes." So I went to sleep. My mom... I didn't tell anybody. My mom came to wake me up. I said, "Mom?" She said, "Yes." I told her, "I'm leaving. I'm going back to Jerusalem. I'm taking the train this morning." "What?!" Oh, she got mad. And so I said, "That's it. I'm going back to Jerusalem." [00:48:14] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:48:14] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. [00:48:15] Ryan Tamoush: Just like that, huh? [00:48:16] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. Because you get used to living by yourself. And all of a sudden you're living at home. [00:48:20] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. And the war interrupted your progress as an individual. [00:48:26] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. So 1973, I went back to the Shalom Hotel. [00:48:31] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. And you were there for another three years before coming to the States, or? [00:48:35] Adnan Saleh: I stayed there. Let me see, from there. What did we go? Worked at the Plaza Hotel? Yeah. No. After I got threatened, I moved to the Plaza Hotel. I worked at the Plaza Hotel. And I have a friend of mine, he came here first, 1975. It's a long story, of his story. My story too. How we came here- [00:49:01] Ryan Tamoush: We're here for your story, but what- [00:49:02] Adnan Saleh: But that's a long- [laughs.] [00:49:03] Ryan Tamoush: What did this gentleman mean, what did he mean to you? [00:49:05] Adnan Saleh: We were roommates. And roommates and we're still friends till now. And his name is. I told you about another Salah. This is a different Salah. His name is Adnan Salah. Mine is Adnan Saleh. That's when I worked, I worked for the Shalom Hotel before 1972. [00:49:25] Adnan Saleh: Actually, they, we introduced... He was a bartender. And we introduced each other. And he lived in Abu Dis, which is the West Bank. Meaning they can't give him a place to live in Jerusalem. Meaning the hotel. So I, we talked to a housekeeper guy, his name is Dabash. We told him, "Bring it, one bed to my room." And him and I, we slept, we stayed in the- [00:49:49] Ryan Tamoush: So he wasn't allowed a room and board, even though he was working at the Plaza Home. [00:49:53] Adnan Saleh: Yeah because he's too close to his home. [00:49:54] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, I see. [00:49:55] Adnan Saleh: No, that was the Shalom Hotel at the time. Then, went to the Plaza. And we need to find a place to live. Because most Arabic families, they're not gonna give you, to rent a room or to rent a house from them. Because they have daughters. It's against the rules. To have a renter, male renter there in the house. We found a place, it's like a hotel actually, him and I first. And I still remember that, I mean, it's noisy all night long. [Whispers, inaudible.] Oh my God. It was a prostitution place. Yeah, we had no idea. And we got scared. [00:50:39] Adnan Saleh: Luckily, one day we saw another friend of ours, I knew him from before, from a town called, next to Nahariya. I met him there. So him and I, we start chit-chatting. He was going to the University of Jerusalem, Jam'at al-Quds. And so we told him our situation. He said, "Well, I can help you guys, but really it's...you really have to play the game." [00:51:05] Adnan Saleh: He lived in a church. A church, which helps Arabic, Palestinian people to live there. But you have to be a student. College student. University student. And we're not. So he talked to the nun. He told her, "You know, they go to college, blah, blah, blah to university," and the whole thing. He said, just play the game. Go down below sometimes in the garden, sit down and read a book, like we're studying. [Laughs.] [00:51:34] Adnan Saleh: And that gate was almost twelve foot high. You know, the churches when they built gates, rocks, and concrete, and well like, yeah, it was twelve feet high. So, we are students. We got there so, we took a room. I mean, long room. Very big high ceilings. There was one phone actually, when the phone rings. Oh, let's say, "I want to talk to Adnan." Okay. "Oh Adnan, it's for you!" That's the only phone we have. And the kitchen was shared refrigeration. You have your name on it. [00:52:10] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. [00:52:11] Adnan Saleh: Anyway, so one day, because Adnan was a bartender, the other guy. He comes home late. He worked at the hotel, Hilton Hotel. In most cases, I worked, I used to get home ten o'clock. Oh, ten o'clock she closes the gate. That's it. You have to be here before ten o'clock. And I used to finish dinner around eight o'clock or so. So no problem. So one day he came home, he used to jump the fence. Because, he gets as a bartender, sometimes he gets home twelve o'clock, eleven o'clock, one o'clock. He used to jump. One day she caught him, he jumped, and there she is in front of his face. [00:52:50] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, no. Did that ruin your living situation or- [00:52:54] Adnan Saleh: I [inaudible] later on, but he didn't know. She said, "You're supposed to be here by ten o'clock." He said, "I'm sorry. I'm in a, I'm studying to be a nurse. I'm at a doc-, in a hospital, and the sick person, I was taking care of a sick person. Sometimes I can't leave like this." She was convinced. She gave him a key. The key for the gate [00:53:18] Ryan Tamoush: To come in and out after 10 PM. [00:53:20] Adnan Saleh: To come in and out as he pleased. As he pleased. I know. [00:53:23] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, wow. [00:53:24] Adnan Saleh: Yeah, so. [00:53:25] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah, you guys kept the story straight and you had a place to live. [00:53:28] Adnan Saleh: We had a place to live and went down there studying. We were pretending we're reading a book. He made a boo-boo and he told me about the key and he left it with me one day. [00:53:36] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [00:53:37] Adnan Saleh: I went and I made a copy for everybody who lives there. [Laughs.] What the heck? You know? [00:53:42] Ryan Tamoush: Well because you're all working different hours of the night and day. [00:53:44] Adnan Saleh: They're all students except us, him and I. [00:53:46] Ryan Tamoush: Of course. [00:53:47] Adnan Saleh: They're all students. They wanna play sometimes, you know? [00:53:48] Ryan Tamoush: Of course. [00:53:49] Adnan Saleh: So then when she found out everybody has a key, she kicked us out of there. [00:53:55] Ryan Tamoush: Oh wow. Only you two. [00:53:57] Adnan Saleh: Only two of us. Yeah. [00:53:57] Ryan Tamoush: So they all, they all- [00:53:59] Adnan Saleh: Yeah, they're students, yeah. [00:53:59] Ryan Tamoush: They all told you, they all told on you, said like, "Hey, it was them." [00:54:02] Adnan Saleh: Yeah, exactly. So we said, no problem. So we went, actually, we rented a place in Shavei Tzion, which is by the Har Herzl also, and in the Jewish community. [00:54:18] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [00:54:18] Adnan Saleh: Luckily, the lady we rented from, she was German, her Hebrew, you can hardly understand. When we speak fluent Hebrew. [00:54:27] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. [00:54:28] Adnan Saleh: So she had no idea we were actually Arabic people. [00:54:32] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:54:32] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. So him, me. Yeah. She's- [00:54:36] Ryan Tamoush: Where did you learn Hebrew? [00:54:38] Adnan Saleh: I went to Jewish high school. [00:54:39] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:54:39] Adnan Saleh: So plus, I mean, you're just like here, if you're born here, you have to speak the language to be able to-. [00:54:45] Ryan Tamoush: You learn Spanish too. [00:54:45] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. I mean, in second grade they start teaching you Hebrew. [00:54:48] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [00:54:49] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. Arabic, Hebrew, then third grade English. Wow. Hebrews use it on a daily basis because you were- [00:54:54] Ryan Tamoush: Was there Arabic? So you learned Arabic, you learned Hebrew and English was later on? [00:55:00] Adnan Saleh: Yeah, well, third grade. [00:55:01] Ryan Tamoush: Third grade. Wow. [00:55:02] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. But you have to use it. We never used it. Anyway, if I go further now we'll disappear the stories. Yeah. So meaning the English was, we thought when I came here, I spoke English, but I didn't. Because a lot of Americans, when they come as a tourist, they speak the light English. [00:55:25] Adnan Saleh: Here, forget it. We're gonna use our big vocabulary now. So anyway, that's beside the point there. So kicked out our house. We went to the house, we rented, she gave it to us actually. And the guy, the student who was at the church, he came with us. His name is Ahmed, he passed away. Unfortunately, God bless his heart. And we stayed there for, until we came here. Actually, yes, Adnan left in 1975 and I stayed living there with Ahmed, the other guy, and I followed him. Do you want me to tell you how we came here or not? I mean, that's a long story too. [00:56:04] Ryan Tamoush: Well, we're gonna, we're gonna get there. Wherever you need to, whatever helps you get the story straight. [00:56:10] Adnan Saleh: Because that's a long one. And I'll make it as short as possible. [00:56:13] Ryan Tamoush: It's whatever you feel like divulging. [00:56:15] Adnan Saleh: I'll make it as short as possible. So Adnan was a bartender at the Shalom Hotel. [00:56:24] Ryan Tamoush: And this is in 1970.... [00:56:25] Adnan Saleh: Now we're talking about in '74. [00:56:27] Ryan Tamoush: '74. Okay. [00:56:28] Adnan Saleh: '74, yeah. And there's one lady, her name is Susan. She used to work as a cocktail waitress down below in the bar with Adnan. Somehow she quit her job. No problem. She quit. So Adnan and I, because we were roommates, we used to go actually have breakfast in the old city, Jerusalem. [00:56:51] Adnan Saleh: Hummus. Just make the hummus in front of you. Tick, tick, tick, tick, boom. Eat it. Like, this guy has three tables. So six, seven months later after she quit, we saw her coming down. You know Jerusalem, the souk. I don't if you, you've never been there. [00:57:04] Ryan Tamoush: No. [00:57:04] Adnan Saleh: The souk, it's stairs and stores. You feel like you're in a cave. Long cave, basically. The souk in Jerusalem? Yeah. Clothing stores, people yelling and screaming and the whole, it's, it's wonderful. So there she is, Susan coming down with her mom and dad. Her mom and dad, they're musicians. They play the cello. [00:57:25] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. Yeah. [00:57:26] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. And she said, "Oh, hi guys. How you doing?" We start chit-chatting. She said, "Oh, this is my mom and dad. They're here to play the cello." And she's Jewish, by the way, from, where's she from? New York. Buffalo. From Buffalo. Exchange phone numbers with Adnan. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. They got married [laughs]. Uh-huh! [00:57:51] Adnan Saleh: And he came, she had a friend. She doesn't wanna go to Buffalo. They have, she has a friend who lives in San Diego. So they went to San Diego. [00:58:01] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [00:58:03] Adnan Saleh: And same thing happened to me. I had a lady who was my first wife, she's the one mother of my daughter actually. She came as a new immigrant, as a Jewish person. When you go there as a new immigrant, they teach you the language. [00:58:23] Adnan Saleh: They give you a place to live, they feed you for the whole year, and then they find you a job. That's the Israeli government I'm talking about. If you're Jewish. And my ex-wife, her name is Susie, the other one's Susan. This one is Susie. So Susie. She came to find a Jewish person to marry. Her sister was living, her sister was living there. [00:58:46] Adnan Saleh: She's from Brooklyn, New York. I used to work in the dining room at the Plaza Hotel, and usually us at that time, you wouldn't see a Palestinian person in the front desk. Because they want you as an American tourist, when you come in the front desk, all you see is the Jewish people basically. Not us. Dining room is a different story. [00:59:11] Adnan Saleh: So the front desk people, when they used to come down to the dining room, we used to serve and dine their customers. They get the menu, they order anything from the menu. So Susie, my ex-wife, she worked in the front desk. I had never met her. I had no idea who she is. She used to come dining room with her group of people, eat there. Do the menu, they eat and all, and they leave. [00:59:40] Adnan Saleh: Things happened. Between her and I. [Laughs.] Things happened and we went, after I want to come to America. I mean, come on. It's, it's time. So I went to the imam in Jerusalem. We want to get married. This way I can start, she can start work on the green card. [00:59:58] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [00:59:59] Adnan Saleh: See she has to come first and sponsor me. [01:00:01] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [01:00:02] Adnan Saleh: Because that was, we had the experience with Susan and Adnan. She came to San Diego, she sponsored him, within two and a half months he was here. So we figured, oh, we'll do the same thing. [01:00:10] Ryan Tamoush: And Susie was from where? [01:00:12] Adnan Saleh: Susie, my ex-wife from Brooklyn, New York. [01:00:14] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, that's right. Okay. [01:00:15] Adnan Saleh: And the other one, Susie, Susan from Buffalo, New York. [01:00:18] Ryan Tamoush: Ah, okay. [01:00:19] Adnan Saleh: Buffalo. Yeah. [01:00:20] Ryan Tamoush: So two Adnans met two Susans. [01:00:22] Adnan Saleh: Susie and Susan. [Laughs.] I know. And they were friends too. Susie and Susan became friends. [01:00:26] Ryan Tamoush: Way to keep the story straight. Yeah. [01:00:27] Adnan Saleh: I know. Exactly. [01:00:28] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. Wow. [01:00:30] Adnan Saleh: So. Was it? Yeah, we went to the imam, we want to get married. He said, he asked me, he said, "Is she a Muslim?" I said, "No." He said, "Well, she has to be Muslim." I said, "Come on man. I just wanna go. I mean, I'm young, 23 years old, I just wanna go to America." He said, "No, no. My son!" He was, he got mad at me. [01:00:53] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [01:00:53] Adnan Saleh: Oh yeah. She has to convert. For him to marry us, she has to convert. To Islam. I said, "Okay, how can we do that?" He told us where to go, what to do. Meaning you have to go see a rabbi. With two more witnesses with the rabbis, meaning three rabbis, different rabbis, with witnesses, with Susie, sitting with them actually by herself, and I'm waiting outside. [01:01:22] Ryan Tamoush: With the rabbis. [01:01:22] Adnan Saleh: With the rabbis. She went there for. I mean, after he told us, it took a week, two weeks, then we had a meeting and I'm trying to make the long story as short as I can. [01:01:33] Ryan Tamoush: It's okay. [01:01:34] Adnan Saleh: So we went there and I waited outside. She was there for almost an hour and a half interviewing and make sure that's what she wanted. She want to leave Judaism to become a Muslim. And I'm waiting outside, I'm thinking I said, "Why do I want her to be Muslim? I could care less about that." You know, to me, I'm not a religious person, first of all. I used to be a communist. What am I? I just wanna get married and get out of here. It's that basically, that's it. So I start thinking. Then Cyprus came to mind. Cyprus, people go there for a civil wedding. [01:02:10] Ryan Tamoush: Oh. [01:02:10] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. So she came out after an hour and a half, she said, "Okay, it's done." I said, "You signed it." She said, "Yeah, yeah." I said, "Give it to me." I didn't even look inside. I ripped it apart. I mean, why should I make her convert because of me? [01:02:26] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [01:02:27] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. I ripped it apart. I said, "We're going to Cyprus." [01:02:30] Ryan Tamoush: But nonetheless, you both made it official. She left the Jewish faith. [01:02:35] Adnan Saleh: She was willing to do it. [01:02:36] Ryan Tamoush: And she did, and you didn't even open up the document. You just tore it up and said- [01:02:39] Adnan Saleh: I tore it apart. You know what? [01:02:41] Ryan Tamoush: Let's go to Cyprus. [01:02:41] Adnan Saleh: Let's go to Cyprus. [01:02:42] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [01:02:43] Adnan Saleh: Okay. We got the ticket within two, three weeks. Made the, we went to Cyprus. We went to Qarnata. We had an appointment with an individual there in  Qarnata to get married. So we went to  Qarnata to meet that individual. They told us, he told us, he said, "Well, how, show us the proof that you're not married or divorced or single." Okay. "What? What do you need?" He said, "You have to go to your own embassy in Cyprus. Bring us a letter from them that you have no spouse." [01:03:23] Adnan Saleh: Okay. Meaning she has to go to her American Embassy. And me I have to go to Israeli embassy, which they were in Nicosia. Okay. So we took I think a bus or a taxi. They have routine between Qarnata. You know, if you know Cyprus is half with the Turkish And half with the Greek. I don't know if you knew that or not. [01:03:41] Ryan Tamoush: No, I did not. [01:03:43] Adnan Saleh: Okay. Yeah. It's, I mean we're, Qarnata is exactly on the border. I mean, you can see the other street, but that's, there's big boulders, you can't go inside because it belongs to Turkey. And half of the other half belongs to the Greek. [01:03:59] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [01:03:59] Adnan Saleh: So we went to Nicosia to see her consular. [01:04:07] Ryan Tamoush: The consular office. [01:04:07] Adnan Saleh: The consulate in, the American consul, yeah. So they gave her a letter and then I went to the Israeli one. First hers finished and went to mine. And he said, "Okay. Yeah." He gave me the letter. He said, "Where are you gonna get married?" [01:04:23] Adnan Saleh: I said, "Oh, in Carnata." He said, "You don't have to go back there to get married. This is the address to go to. You can go to this one." I said, which is Nicosia. I figured, wonderful. Why go there, and then, we're here, so might as well finish it and get over with. Yeah. We went there. [01:04:38] Ryan Tamoush: It is a romantic story nonetheless. [01:04:40] Adnan Saleh: [Laughs.] [01:04:41] Ryan Tamoush: I mean, you're forgoing a lot of, I mean, thousands of years of tradition. [01:04:46] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. Whatever it takes. [01:04:46] Ryan Tamoush: And you said in the seventies, as a young 20-year-old, you said, "I just wanna marry this woman. I love her." And you're- [01:04:53] Adnan Saleh: I didn't know if I loved her or not. [01:04:55] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [01:04:55] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. That's one thing actually, I told her that from the beginning. I said, "I don't know if we're gonna stay together or not." I wanted to know before we leave to the United States. [01:05:07] Ryan Tamoush: Yes. [01:05:08] Adnan Saleh: I mean, I was, I don't, my goal was to come here and she knew that, and I told her. Yeah. That I was honest with her. [01:05:14] Ryan Tamoush: It was a mutual understanding. [01:05:15] Adnan Saleh: Exactly, yeah. My goal was to come to here, basically. And I told her that. But I asked her later on, she said, "I thought maybe you'll love me and stay with me," by the way. So we, the person, the reason I'm going back to the person who married us. She was Jewish from Israel. [01:05:36] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, wow. [01:05:37] Adnan Saleh: [Laughs.] Civil wedding. We got civil, we stayed there more I think maybe four or five days. Went back home, back, start doing the paperwork. She left before me. Where is she gonna go now? San Diego. Because my buddy's there, Susan is there. [01:05:54] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, wow. [01:05:54] Adnan Saleh: And at that time, Adnan and Susan, they were managing an apartment building. [01:05:58] Ryan Tamoush: And they didn't, they haven't met Susie yet. [01:06:00] Adnan Saleh: Susan and Susie. Yeah. They knew each other from there. [01:06:02] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, they did know. Okay. [01:06:02] Adnan Saleh: They did. Yeah. We introduced them to each other there. Yeah. [01:06:04] Ryan Tamoush: Okay, good. [01:06:05] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. So well, we're gonna go San Diego. Never heard of San Diego. In the Middle East. We know New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Hollywood. [01:06:14] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. [01:06:15] Adnan Saleh: But San Diego? So she came first and luckily they own, they managed an apartment building, and she got a two bedroom, two bath, an apartment. [01:06:27] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [01:06:27] Adnan Saleh: Next to Balboa Park. I don't know if you've been there or not. [01:06:29] Ryan Tamoush: Balboa Park. Yeah. [01:06:30] Adnan Saleh: Balboa Park. Laurel and Sixth Street. [01:06:32] Ryan Tamoush: Oh wow, okay. [01:06:33] Adnan Saleh: Exactly across from Balboa Park. Yeah. Now I think they have, next to it, it's an Egyptian big building there, condominium, Egyptian stuff. [01:06:41] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [01:06:43] Adnan Saleh: So I went there. Anyway, she did the whole shebang for me. She sponsored me. She found a job. I came to this country. I have to be interviewed with the diplomats, also, the American Embassy in Tel Aviv. And I have to do the health stuff. Blood tests. [01:07:06] Ryan Tamoush: Legal I'm sure. [01:07:07] Adnan Saleh: Legal, all that stuff. It was done for within two and a half months. So- [01:07:11] Ryan Tamoush: Well about that process, were they stringent on your relationship with Susie? [01:07:16] Adnan Saleh: No. No, no. [01:07:18] Ryan Tamoush: They said you guys are married and it's all good. [01:07:20] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. She's sponsoring me. We're done. No problem. Within two and a half months, everything was done. They gave me the manila envelope, at the American Embassy. He told me, I remember that, he said, "This is your life." The manila envelope. [01:07:33] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [01:07:34] Adnan Saleh: "Don't lose it. Don't open it either. If you get there and it's open, they'll send you back." [01:07:40] Ryan Tamoush: Really? [01:07:40] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. [01:07:41] Ryan Tamoush: What was in this? [01:07:42] Adnan Saleh: All of my information there. [01:07:44] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [01:07:46] Adnan Saleh: All the information I gave it to them. Plus they have to check you out with the security, with the, yeah. Make sure. [01:07:51] Ryan Tamoush: And so they did like an official seal. [01:07:53] Adnan Saleh: The whole sealed, don't touch it. Yes. [01:07:55] Ryan Tamoush: And you're supposed to hold it until you get to the States. [01:07:57] Adnan Saleh: Until you get the States. [01:07:58] Ryan Tamoush: You give it to... [01:08:00] Adnan Saleh: The immigration officer in Los Angeles. [01:08:02] Ryan Tamoush: And they open it. [01:08:03] Adnan Saleh: They do whatever they want with it. So I got here, I gave it to them, and at that time, my wife was waiting for me at the airport, obviously. [01:08:11] Ryan Tamoush: 1976. [01:08:12] Adnan Saleh: '76. July 26th, 1976. [01:08:15] Ryan Tamoush: So now here we are in the states, 1976, Los Angeles but going to San Diego coming. [01:08:20] Adnan Saleh: Los Angeles, coming to San Diego. But the ironic thing is I got my green card within fifteen minutes. Where here, now, you have to wait two, three years? [01:08:31] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. [01:08:31] Adnan Saleh: Within fifteen minutes I was at the airport. Then went, fifteen minutes later, came back with my picture with my green card. He said, "This is your identification now." I said, "What do you mean?" He said, "This is your identification until you become a citizen. [01:08:45] Ryan Tamoush: Green card in fifteen minutes. [01:08:46] Adnan Saleh: Green card. Fifteen minutes. [01:08:48] Ryan Tamoush: Did that change after Carter and Reagan? [01:08:51] Adnan Saleh: Oh, everything's changed now, even now. [01:08:52] Ryan Tamoush: Well, did it change immediately when Reagan took over? Would that- [01:08:55] Adnan Saleh: No, I don't think so. It was still, it was still. [01:08:58] Ryan Tamoush: It was pretty laid back. [01:08:59] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. Yeah. But I don't know when it came, but I know now it's [laughs]. [01:09:03] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. So 1976 in San Diego. [01:09:06] Adnan Saleh: '76 in San Diego. Okay. You gotta go? [01:09:09] Ryan Tamoush: No, it's, if you want, I know you wanted to stop at 11. [01:09:13] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. Yeah. 11 o'clock is good. [01:09:14] Ryan Tamoush: If you wish to keep going. [01:09:15] Adnan Saleh: No, that's enough. But I, yeah. [01:09:16] Ryan Tamoush: We can continue. [01:09:17] Adnan Saleh: We can continue. [01:09:18] Ryan Tamoush: We'll schedule. [01:09:19] Adnan Saleh: Just try to note where you just stopped. [01:09:20] Ryan Tamoush: We're gonna leave it right here in 1976 in San Diego. [01:09:24] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. [01:09:24] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. Your story in Palestine nonetheless, it's impressive and if there's anything else you want to share about that before we move forward into America. [01:09:35] Adnan Saleh: We'll go, exactly, we'll go back, we'll go back to that too, so... [01:09:38] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [01:09:39] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. [01:09:42] Ryan Tamoush: 1976, San Diego. [01:09:43] Adnan Saleh: I mean, you could sit for hours and hours and tell stories, especially when you start telling the story. You know, I have never thought I would ever tell the story, but stuff start coming up. [01:09:51] Ryan Tamoush: That's right. That's what we have, and I'm genuinely enjoying every bit of this. I really appreciate it. [01:09:55] Adnan Saleh: Thank you. I'm thinking about it, that's 49 years ago. Come on. [01:09:57] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah! [01:09:58] Ryan Tamoush: Okay, good afternoon Adnan. [01:10:01] Adnan Saleh: Good afternoon. [01:10:02] Ryan Tamoush: We are here back in your beautiful property, relaxing in the shade. I'm so glad to be here and to be having our second- [01:10:10] Adnan Saleh: Glad to have you, my friend. [01:10:11] Ryan Tamoush: Yes, and to have our second interview. [01:10:13] Adnan Saleh: Yes, yes. [01:10:15] Ryan Tamoush: Again, we're here in the residence of Adnan Saleh. Adnan, would you mind introducing yourself, your name and spelling it out? [01:10:23] Adnan Saleh: My name is Adnan Saleh, A-D-N-A-N first name, last name S-A-L-E-H. [01:10:29] Ryan Tamoush: Beautiful. And today's date is... [01:10:32] Adnan Saleh: The 2nd. [01:10:33] Ryan Tamoush: August 2nd. [01:10:34] Adnan Saleh: August 2nd. [01:10:34] Ryan Tamoush: 2025. [01:10:35] Adnan Saleh: Christmas is coming up. [01:10:36] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. Our original interview was hosted May 22nd, 2025, at this same residence. We are continuing our interview. [01:10:46] Adnan Saleh: It's been May? [01:10:47] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. [01:10:47] Adnan Saleh: Wow. [01:10:48] Ryan Tamoush: We got a little busy. [01:10:49] Adnan Saleh: Feels like yesterday, [Laughs.] Wow, okay. [01:10:51] Ryan Tamoush: Right here. Right back where we- [01:10:53] Adnan Saleh: I know... [01:10:54] Ryan Tamoush: Where we started. [01:10:55] Adnan Saleh: Wow, okay. [01:10:55] Ryan Tamoush: So yeah. And, so we left off in the interview, you just left Jerusalem. Your friend- [01:11:04] Adnan Saleh: Adnan. [01:11:05] Ryan Tamoush: Adnan as well. [01:11:06] Adnan Saleh: Adnan Salah. Yeah, Adnan Salah. [01:11:07] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. He arrived in San Diego first. [01:11:09] Adnan Saleh: In '75, yep. [01:11:10] Ryan Tamoush: That's right, in '75. And you followed him in 1976. [01:11:14] Adnan Saleh: In '76. July 26th, '76. [01:11:17] Ryan Tamoush: Okay, July 26th. [01:11:18] Adnan Saleh: July 26th, '76. [01:11:20] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [01:11:21] Adnan Saleh: That's why I have my email address 2676. So I can remember. [Laughs.] Next year will- [01:11:28] Ryan Tamoush: [Laughs.] Just in case. [01:11:29] Adnan Saleh: Next year will be 50 years basically. [01:11:31] Ryan Tamoush: In case they have any more questions, yeah, say, "Just check my email." [01:11:34] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. There, yeah, check the email. Exactly, thank you. [01:11:36] Ryan Tamoush: [Laughs.] Okay. So 1976 you arrived in San Diego. Correct? [01:11:43] Adnan Saleh: Oh, we haven't even gone past that yet? [01:11:46] Ryan Tamoush: That's where we stopped. [01:11:47] Adnan Saleh: Oh, we better go quick then. Wow! [01:11:50] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. But you mentioned that having a fifteen-minute visa. What was that? [01:11:55] Adnan Saleh: At the airport, at the airport. When I arrived at, at the airport. You know, at the American Embassy in Tel Aviv, when I filled out my paperwork, they gave me a manila envelope basically. They said, "This is your life. You lose it, you can't even enter the country." So I held up and kept it in my, next to my heart like this. [01:12:17] Adnan Saleh: Oh, okay, I'm going to America. You know, I have my manila envelope. I didn't care about the luggage. I just... So when I arrived in Los Angeles, the guy said, "Show me your paper." I give, I gave him the manila envelope basically, and he said, "Wait fifteen minutes." And he came back with the green card. He said, "This is your green card. That's your ID now." I said, "This is it?" He said, "That's it." [01:12:38] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [01:12:38] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. [01:12:39] Ryan Tamoush: And what do you think made that process easier? Because we're speaking now during a time where it's extremely difficult to come to this country. [01:12:47] Adnan Saleh: It was easy then actually. I met ... When did I meet, two days, no, two, three days ago, and she said she got her green card at the American Embassy before she even came here. [01:13:02] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [01:13:03] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. [01:13:03] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [01:13:04] Adnan Saleh: So that's how easy it was then. [01:13:06] Ryan Tamoush: And what was your passport though? Was your passport a Palestinian passport? [01:13:12] Adnan Saleh: No, I'm an Israeli, because I'm an Israeli citizen. I'm a Palestinian who actually was born under the Israeli government, so I have an Israeli passport. That's correct. [01:13:21] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. So you made your way to Los Angeles. You have your green card. [01:13:27] Adnan Saleh: That's correct. I had my green card. [01:13:29] Ryan Tamoush: What was your next move? [01:13:30] Adnan Saleh: Find a job. I don't have any money. I gotta find a job. I needed to take my driver license and find a job basically. So within eleven days, before that, I think, within, no, before, no, that's right. I got it after that. Within eleven days, I have a job. I was working as a bus boy. I'm sure you're familiar with La Jolla? [01:13:52] Ryan Tamoush: Oh yes, La Jolla. [01:13:52] Adnan Saleh: I worked in La Jolla. There's a new place they just opened it up called Bon Vivant. It's a French restaurant, and Adnan was working there, my friend Adnan. He was a server actually. So he said, "Come and work with us." Another guy, Salim from Pakistan, God bless his heart, he passed away, and he said, "Yeah, come work with us." So I went there as a busboy. [01:14:15] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [01:14:15] Adnan Saleh: But then I said, "One minute, I mean, I don't wanna be... I have to learn English." I thought I spoke English. I was lost. I was lost, I mean, to the point where, I don't know if I told you the story about, that night when I was working one night there's two couples were sitting at a table and they asked me, the guy said, "Do you have..." because it's a brand new restaurant. He said, "Do you have booze?" He went like this. So when he went like this I said, "Let me ask the bartender." [01:14:48] Ryan Tamoush: That's the universal sign for tipping one back. Throwing one down. [01:14:51] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. Otherwise if he said booze I wouldn't even know what he's saying, what he's talking about. But luckily he went like this, "Do you have booze?" [01:14:58] Ryan Tamoush: And that sign right here which is your pinky up, your thumb out tilting it back, that's the universal sign everywhere. [01:15:05] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. Meaning go ask the bartender. He said, "Oh, do you have a bartender?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Oh, then you have booze." I said, "No, let me ask him just in case." I had no idea what booze means. I thought booze must some kind of a drink. So I went, I said, "John?" He said, "Yes, Adnan?" I said, "Do we have booze here?" He smiled and looked at me and said, "Adnan?" I said, "Yes." He said, "You see all this?" I said, "Yes." He said, "This is booze." I said, "Oh, okay." [01:15:31] Ryan Tamoush: The whole bar. The whole, the whole bar is booze. So did you start bringing them two bottles at a time? [01:15:37] Adnan Saleh: Then I told them we have booze so I think they... I wasn't a server so I wasn't able to take their order because they have, but he, I was putting, you know, the glass water and so on and they asked me and I went back and I said, "Yes, we have booze." They said, "I know. You told us you have a bartender." [01:15:53] Adnan Saleh: So, so then I said, "Okay, I have, I have to go and take some English classes." And I wasn't able to work at daytime. The English classes I found is Monday through Friday basically from 8:00 to 3:00, 8:00 AM to 3:00. I think it's kinda through a government program then. I don't know if they still have them or not. [01:16:12] Adnan Saleh: So I wasn't able to work lunchtime at this restaurant. So Salim, he was working there also from Pakistan. He said, "Well, do you wanna come work as a busboy at the Sea Lodge Hotel?" He said, "I work, I work there in the mornings." I said, "Yeah. I'll come in." So I went, I was interviewed. [01:16:32] Adnan Saleh: You know, they hire you on the spot then, not like now you have sixteen people interviewing one person. I went there and the guy said, "When can you start?" I said, "Tomorrow, but you know, I can't work daytime." He said, "No problem. You work at dinnertime." I said, "Perfect." So Monday through Friday I took English and I was bussing tables actually there. [01:16:51] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. So the English courses were after work every or was it before work? [01:16:56] Adnan Saleh: Before work. Before work. [01:16:57] Ryan Tamoush: Because you were working, I suppose. Yeah. Yeah. [01:16:58] Adnan Saleh: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I used to take a bus actually because I didn't have my driver license then yet. Because I've never really thought I would ever own a car in my life. Even back when I was living with my family or by myself in Jerusalem, I did always buses and trains and so on. So I never thought I'll ever own a car. So... And I was, yeah, I was taking the bus actually to La Jolla. And I remember I used to pick it up, I don't know if you're familiar with San Diego or not? [01:17:30] Ryan Tamoush: Yes. [01:17:31] Adnan Saleh: There's a street called Sassafras. Sassafras is way down, down below, exactly. And I was living on Sixth and Laurel Street which is Balboa, by Balboa Park. I used to walk all down. Just take the bus at night and walk it up and go home. And long story short, I'm gonna shorten it now a little bit. [01:17:53] Adnan Saleh: After, within a year or so, I became a server. Then I worked on the front desk. Then the, Peter Eberhardt who hired me, he was the restaurant manager at the hotel. You know we have restaurants, banquets, we had a bar, we have, we do weddings there also. And so he retired and I applied for the job. I wasn't hired. They hired someone else. Which is okay. And this guy lasted maybe six months? Because each time I looked at him I said, "He's not doing a good job." He comes and he's got his guitar and plays guitar at night. It's a joke? [01:18:37] Ryan Tamoush: He's a musician, not a worker. [01:18:38] Adnan Saleh: He's a musician he's not a worker. It's a joke. What is this? So then he, they let him go actually. Then I applied for the job again. And the owner, it's actually The Sea Lodge Hotel owned by the Kellogg family, not the cornflakes. [01:18:58] Ryan Tamoush: Oh okay. [01:18:59] Adnan Saleh: No, the Kellogg family like, there's an institute there by La Jolla there. Anyway- [01:19:06] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, the Kellogg, yeah, the Kellogg Institute? [01:19:08] Adnan Saleh: Institute, exactly. Yeah. They have three places. They own The Sea Lodge Hotel. They own another La Jolla Beach and Tennis Club, and they own the Marine Room. Marine Room is a beautiful restaurant actually that I worked in there. So The Sea Lodge Hotel, one of the, one of the Kelloggs, an older man, he was managing us, the hotel. [01:19:30] Adnan Saleh: So I went for an interview. He interviewed me, he said, "Adnan." He never looked me in the eye. Yeah. So, "Adnan, we are gonna try, we're gonna give you three months trial and see how it goes. And we'll pay you that much for three months, and after three months we'll make a review and we'll take it from there if you're doing good job." I said, "No problem, man." Now, you're becoming a manager for the servers who are their, who are their, you were their busboy. [01:20:04] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. [01:20:05] Adnan Saleh: I had 45 employees. Yeah, I mean, you talk about servers. [01:20:10] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, so hold on. So, you get the interview and then instantly they put you in charge of 45 servers. [01:20:17] Adnan Saleh: Yeah, exactly. He said, "We'll have to..." Again, like I said, three months trial. [01:20:21] Ryan Tamoush: So okay, so during those three months you prove that you can handle it, and that this was easy work for you obviously. [01:20:27] Adnan Saleh: I mean, I gotta do it. Gotta do what it takes. I mean, the guy gave me three months. [01:20:31] Ryan Tamoush: And you were given a job. [01:20:33] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. I was given a job that I've never thought at 27 years old I'd have a restaurant manager of The Sea Lodge in the hotel. It's beautiful on the beach. I mean, that's... Anyway, so- [01:20:45] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, well I have one question. [01:20:46] Adnan Saleh: Okay. [01:20:46] Ryan Tamoush: Or I had a couple. Living in La Jolla- [01:20:50] Adnan Saleh: No, I don't live in La Jolla. I worked in La Jolla. [01:20:52] Ryan Tamoush: You lived where exactly? [01:20:53] Adnan Saleh: I lived in Mira Mesa. [01:20:54] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, okay. [01:20:55] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. No, no, La Jolla, no, you can't afford to live there . [01:20:57] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah, I was gonna say. But commuting and being in that area, what was the general treatment towards you, especially as you were learning English? Was it difficult? Were people hospitable? [01:21:08] Adnan Saleh: Oh yeah, no, they were very nice. Especially actually, even because, you know, I'm courteous to a lot of people. I mean, a lot of, even the customers when they come, like, even when I was busboy or a server. You take care of them, you make them happy. [01:21:24] Adnan Saleh: They're there to, I mean, they're spending their money, you make them happy basically. But when I became the manager things switched. I mean now they need, I mean the clients, when they make a reservation now, they call the restaurant to make a reservation. And they want a window table, and the hostess says, "I'm sorry, I can't reserve window tables." "Can we talk to the manager?" La Jolla, you know? Yeah. So I go- [01:21:52] Ryan Tamoush: "I must speak to the manager." [01:21:53] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. "I wanna speak to the manager. What do you mean you can't give me a window table?" [Laughs.] Meaning like, so I go, I tell them the same thing, but they want to hear it from the manager, not from the hostess. It's sad. Yeah. And I tell them, "You know, when you come in you're welcome to sit down on the bar, and if we have a window table, they're going to..." "Okay, thank you." And we make a reservation and move on. [01:22:13] Adnan Saleh: So I got to know a lot of people. I got to know a lot of people at the hotel actually coming on vacation from Texas. Some of them I became friends, some of them I went to visit in Arizona. Some of them lived... one guy and his wife, she was a producer, worked for one of the guys there, the director. She invited us to her house. I mean, I [inaudible] I'm not, I'm nothing! I was telling myself, "What are you doing even here?" But it was fun getting to know those people. And I was there for six years until I got fired. [01:22:54] Ryan Tamoush: And what happened? [01:22:56] Adnan Saleh: [Laughs.] Three years after the father hired me as a restaurant manager, his son who was my age took over. [01:23:05] Ryan Tamoush: Ah. [01:23:05] Adnan Saleh: Yeah, took over the management of the hotel, because his father passed away. So he took over the hotel, not the restaurant. Meaning really I hardly see him anyway because... But once in a while as a restaurant manager you have to communicate with the hotel manager also. So- [01:23:26] Ryan Tamoush: The son, the new hotel manager- [01:23:29] Adnan Saleh: The new hotel manager took over. [01:23:29] Ryan Tamoush: He has inherited this massive business- [01:23:32] Adnan Saleh: Oh, these guys, they live on, whatcha-ma-call-it... They get monthly, I can't even think of the word now. [01:23:43] Ryan Tamoush: Like a monthly- [01:23:47] Adnan Saleh: Month, something fund. [01:23:48] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, an audit? [01:23:48] Adnan Saleh: Baby fund. [01:23:49] Ryan Tamoush: Oh, yeah, he's a trust fund. [01:23:51] Adnan Saleh: He's trust fund. Thank you. [01:23:51] Ryan Tamoush: Trust fund baby. Of course. [01:23:53] Adnan Saleh: A trust fund baby. And he took over. He's my age. Anyway, after, within four years, he never liked me. Because of my dark skin. And each time, let's say once, once a month or something, let's see if we have a new person who's dark skinned people, he comes to me and said, "Adnan, is he one of your people?" [01:24:18] Ryan Tamoush: Ah. [01:24:18] Adnan Saleh: Yeah, because from the beginning I knew it, he didn't like me. He never gave me respect. So I figured, you know what? The worst they could do is, you know what? Fire me. So I did the same thing. Yeah. I said, "Go ask him." He says, "Well, I just want to make sure you're not hiring your own people." [01:24:37] Ryan Tamoush: Oh. [01:24:38] Adnan Saleh: Oh, yeah. [01:24:38] Ryan Tamoush: So he was worried about you hiring your own people. [01:24:41] Adnan Saleh: Oh, yeah, yeah. [01:24:42] Ryan Tamoush: But he's allowed to- [01:24:43] Adnan Saleh: He's, you know, he's the white guy. [01:24:44] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. [01:24:44] Adnan Saleh: Yeah, exactly. Unfortunately. [01:24:46] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. So it was- [01:24:48] Adnan Saleh: So at one time- [01:24:49] Ryan Tamoush: So you did feel, you did feel that there was some sort of racial bias tied to this? [01:24:53] Adnan Saleh: By him. [01:24:54] Ryan Tamoush: By him. [01:24:54] Adnan Saleh: By him only. [01:24:55] Ryan Tamoush: Not his father, not anyone else. [01:24:56] Adnan Saleh: No. No, his father passed away. He's the one who hired me and after three- [01:24:59] Ryan Tamoush: Sounded like a good guy. [01:25:00] Adnan Saleh: Oh, he's wonderful, even.... Even, he called... Remember, we're gonna go back to three months now. He called me within a month and a half. Remember he said, "Three months if you do good job?" He called me with a month and a half. He said, "We're gonna give you a raise now." [01:25:14] Ryan Tamoush: Nice. [01:25:15] Adnan Saleh: Not even waited three months. [01:25:17] Ryan Tamoush: But his son on the other hand- [01:25:18] Adnan Saleh: His son on the run came in and he... I'm so blessed that he fired me actually. You know why? Otherwise, I'd be still there. Because I loved it. I loved it. I mean, I had... You work on the water, on the beach. You have, you get to know a lot of customers, know a lot of customers. What the heck? [01:25:37] Adnan Saleh: So long story short, two weeks before the firing, I knew what's going on. He went to the servers. He tells them, "Don't listen to Adnan. Whatever he says, just ignore him. He's on my blacklist." And they come and tell me that. I mean, I know, I can tell. I mean, he's gonna, he's gonna get rid of me anyway. [01:25:58] Adnan Saleh: So one day he called me to his office, which we hardly meet at his office because he always, if I have a meeting with him, we meet in the garage. I'm leaving or coming or vice versa. He says, "Oh, Adnan, you left me a note on my desk. What do you need?" I said, "Can we sit down in your office?" "Oh, no, you can talk to me here." I say, "No," I just keep going. Because he doesn't respect me. He doesn't give me even enough respect to sit down with me in his office and me sitting in front of him in his office. That's sad. That, yeah. [01:26:29] Adnan Saleh: So anyway, he called me to his office after... I worked for them for ten years, the whole combo together for almost ten years, but managing for six and a half years or so. [01:26:41] Adnan Saleh: Called me to his office, said, "Adnan!" I said, "Yes." He said, "Well, we would like you to resign, and I'll give you a good recommendation." I said, "Bob, you're a hypocrite person." I said, "You're firing me. You want me to resign, and you wanna tell the next employer I'm a good employee? Uh-uh. You have to fire me. Give me a letter that you're firing me." "Oh, it's better for you." I said, "Don't tell me what's better for you and what's not better for me. Just you wanna get rid of me, fire me and let me go." [01:27:13] Adnan Saleh: He wouldn't do it. I said, " Well, I'm in the dining room. When you're ready, call me." So probably, see, I mean, it's over. That's it. What the heck? What are you... We have nothing to lose. Went back. Within two minutes, he called me. He said, "Okay, you're fired." I said, "Write it down." And I left. [01:27:32] Adnan Saleh: But there's one thing I promised myself when I came to this country, is I will never go to the employment office to collect money. Meaning, I do not wanna be unemployed, to collect money because I'm employed. I didn't come here actually to be unemployed. I came here to make it, to make a good, good life for me. [01:27:52] Ryan Tamoush: And you would not quit a job and you didn't want- [01:27:55] Adnan Saleh: No. No. I didn't quit. They fired me, but I still, I'm not gonna collect unemployment. [01:27:59] Ryan Tamoush: It was your integrity against his, it seems like. [01:28:01] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. Exactly. I don't wanna collect unemployment. So, and I went to the employment office to see if I can sue him. Not to collect unemployment. They said, "Well, you have to exhaust all your options." I said, "What do you mean options?" "Well, you can talk to a lawyer but we can't really help you on that." [01:28:28] Adnan Saleh: I said, "Okay, no problem." So I went, I saw an attorney. He said, "Okay, we're gonna take it on contingency." Meaning I think it was 30/70 or maybe, no. He gets 40%, I get 60%, whatever we money we win from the lawsuit. I said, "No problem." But he said, "I need some, you know, letters maybe from the employees that he was really prejudiced against you." I said, "How many do you need?" [Laughs.] He says, "I don't know, maybe, you know, three, four, five." I said, "Okay." I got him eleven. [01:29:03] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [01:29:03] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. Well, yeah, because I was good to them. I was good to my employees. I went to... I mean, I had even some male servers and female servers met there, got married, because I hired them. Not hired them to get married, but that's where they met, at The Sea Lodge, and they invited me to their weddings. [01:29:23] Ryan Tamoush: And you, I'm sure you've created a work environment that was- [01:29:26] Adnan Saleh: Oh, yeah. [01:29:26] Ryan Tamoush: Extremely welcoming. [01:29:27] Adnan Saleh: Exactly, welcoming. It's fun. I was having fun. Because I did not believe I am the manager of the... Because I, you know, I was young and never think about becoming a restaurant manager coming from nowhere, from a little village with one bedroom, outdoor bath. [01:29:46] Adnan Saleh: All of a sudden you're a restaurant manager in America. So, let me go. I went to the attorney, I gave him the, I think, yeah I gave him eleven letters from eleven employees. He said, "Oh, I just need five." I said, "No, take them all. It's your yours." It took actually five years. They settled of court. [01:30:06] Ryan Tamoush: Of course. [01:30:07] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. They settled out of court. [01:30:10] Ryan Tamoush: And so you won the case? [01:30:11] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. After five years. Oh yeah, I mean, I knew it gonna happen. Yeah. Wasn't a lot of money, but- [01:30:17] Ryan Tamoush: And it was definitive, I'm sure, well because he had no, you had a good track record. You were there for six years. [01:30:22] Adnan Saleh: Although, I mean- [01:30:24] Ryan Tamoush: Things were doing good. [01:30:24] Adnan Saleh: I got witnesses there that told, he told the servers, "These are my blacklist." He thought because they are maybe non-dark servers, they will side with him. [01:30:35] Ryan Tamoush: Okay, so these were white servers that- [01:30:37] Adnan Saleh: Oh, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. [01:30:37] Ryan Tamoush: That also respected you- [01:30:38] Adnan Saleh: Oh, yeah. [01:30:39] Ryan Tamoush: And loved you, I'm sure. [01:30:39] Adnan Saleh: Oh, yeah. You know, most of the employees there, yeah, definitely. I mean, I never looked at someone colors. If you're a good person, you're a good person. [01:30:47] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah, but looking back, looking back, you kinda are forced to look at it from an objective- [01:30:52] Adnan Saleh: Because of him, unfortunately. [01:30:53] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah, exactly. [01:30:54] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. Because of this guy. [01:30:54] Ryan Tamoush: He's the one that brought race into the situation. [01:30:56] Adnan Saleh: It's absolutely right, yeah. [01:30:57] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. Good for you. [01:30:59] Adnan Saleh: But, you know, I found jobs right away. I said, "Okay, no more restaurant for me. I don't wanna work in restaurants anymore." I wanted different jobs. I worked some jobs while I was going to college. [01:31:09] Ryan Tamoush: What were some of those jobs? [01:31:10] Adnan Saleh: Oh, I think one of them after I left, it was at May Company. Maybe I was like, they have the, I dunno if you, you're probably too young to remember those things. May Company and JCPenney and all those big stores, they used to have to take portraits of people. [01:31:30] Ryan Tamoush: Yes. [01:31:31] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. And they take portrait, then they come back within a week. You spread all those pictures, and one of them, it's a joke. [01:31:38] Ryan Tamoush: I remember those days. [01:31:38] Adnan Saleh: It's a joke, man. [01:31:39] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. What years were this? [01:31:42] Adnan Saleh: That was, let's see, I- [01:31:43] Ryan Tamoush: So six years after '76, you think? [01:31:46] Adnan Saleh: Exactly, yeah, around '86 or so. Around '86, yeah. May Company in El Cajon. I was there for, I was, they put me the manager of the, I don't take pictures. I'm not a photographer. But meaning managers to sell the portrait. Then I said, "No." I did it for only few months. I said, "No, it's a joke. I just couldn't-" [01:32:04] Ryan Tamoush: And so you were essentially working retail stores. [01:32:07] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. [01:32:09] Ryan Tamoush: Department stores, and your English is probably have come together well by now. [01:32:14] Adnan Saleh: Yes, yes, improved. [01:32:14] Ryan Tamoush: Six years in the Lodge, you were- [01:32:16] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. That's correct. That's correct. [01:32:17] Ryan Tamoush: Very fluent by the time. [01:32:18] Adnan Saleh: That's correct. Yeah, true. But still, I knew I can find restaurant manager within a second. But I said, because what happened to me, I said, "I'm not going back." I tried retail. What else I tried out? I worked on the front desk in one of the hotels in San Diego after that. [01:32:42] Adnan Saleh: Then the money wasn't there unfortunately, you know? You can't survive on that. So then I applied for a job with Denny's Corporation. [01:32:50] Ryan Tamoush: Denny's. [01:32:51] Adnan Saleh: Denny's. Denny's Corporation, they hired me as an assistant manager. And, you know, at their stores every store has two assistant manager and one general manager at Denny's restaurant. [01:33:07] Adnan Saleh: And they train you for almost two and half months, as an assistant manager, what needs to be done. You become a dishwasher, you become a server, you become a cook, you become the whole shebang. Training for two and a half months, full training before you become an assistant manager. So I became an assistant manager in... [01:33:27] Adnan Saleh: What restaurant was it? I think on Convoy Street in San Diego. And I worked there for maybe for six months or so, and then they had an opening on another Denny's. My goal was to become a general manager. As an assistant manager most of the time you work graveyard. I mean, not the graveyard shift but it's still a graveyard shift. You work from five o'clock in the mo-, from 5:00 PM until... Because, you know, we're open 24 hours a day. [01:33:57] Ryan Tamoush: That's right. [01:33:58] Adnan Saleh: From 5:00 PM to maybe 2:00 and sometimes if there is... Like, I worked at the one in Mission Valley. There were dancing, people dance, people meet. Where are they gonna go after 2:00? [01:34:12] Ryan Tamoush: A hangover. [01:34:12] Adnan Saleh: Have a hangover at Denny's and waiting in line. And I'm there till six o'clock in the morning! [01:34:17] Ryan Tamoush: That's right dealing with all the hard customers- [01:34:20] Adnan Saleh: Man, oh yeah. [01:34:22] Ryan Tamoush: Giving trouble. [01:34:22] Adnan Saleh: Oh, yeah. [01:34:23] Ryan Tamoush: Drunk. [01:34:23] Adnan Saleh: Oh, yeah, man. After 5:00. I did that for five years. Oh, then I... That's why what pushed me to become a general manager. General manager, you work only maybe one week out every three, four months that shift just to see what's going on. [01:34:40] Adnan Saleh: Otherwise, in the morning by five o'clock you're gone. And the assistant managers do most of the work. They do the inventory, they do the ordering. They do schedule, the scheduling. I said, "Ah, this is what I wanted." So yeah, within six months they gave me a store in Mira Mesa, next to Miramar, on Mira Mesa Boulevard basically, yeah. And that store wasn't doing well They said, "You're the general manager there." [01:35:15] Ryan Tamoush: And so when they brought you to that store did they expect you to improve it? I guess there was no stipulation. They just wanted to see if you were gonna- [01:35:24] Adnan Saleh: No, they just want, no, now they have an opening for a general manager there. They have two assistant managers. They weren't qualified to become general managers. So they said, "You take over." [01:35:32] Ryan Tamoush: And so how did that location go and how long were you with Denny's after that? [01:35:37] Adnan Saleh: I worked with them for almost five years. [01:35:39] Ryan Tamoush: Five years. [01:35:39] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. [01:35:40] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [01:35:41] Adnan Saleh: I mean all together, not just for Miramar Road. For Miramar Road, the one on Mira Mesa Boulevard, that store, at that time they had... Something was going on at that time. Let me see what they did. [01:36:00] Adnan Saleh: They had some kind of a competition among all the Denny's restaurant and Hardee's, you know, they're all owned by Denny's Corporation. The whole country. If you lower your food cost, labor cost, ba-boom, ba-boom, all that stuff within six months or so, they take us somewhere. So we all... [01:36:25] Adnan Saleh: You compete to reach that goal. That restaurant actually for me it was wonderful because it gave me confidence in myself that I can take a store like this, practically doing... what, what were we doing? 24 hours a day for the whole thing. $25,000 maybe a week? To $60,000 a week. [01:36:50] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [01:36:51] Adnan Saleh: Yes, it was crazy. That actually... But what I did there, I did because I'm now general manager now so I can really control the flow. And I'm in the front. I don't like to cook. Never cooked in my life in a restaurant. So I trained some servers to become cooks. I can handle the floor. The floor no problem. I mean, customers come in, you chitchat with them. [01:37:16] Adnan Saleh: You actually, you can kill time with them if they're waiting for something. But in the kitchen I can't. I got sixteen tickets. I gotta... I mean, give me one ticket, I'm confused. I don't want sixteen tickets. So I trained servers to become cooks. Because, you know, people call in sick, cooks. If a server calls in sick, I have no problem with that. [01:37:36] Adnan Saleh: If all the servers get let's say six tables each, server calls in sick guess what? You have seven tables now. No big deal. Exactly. If two servers called in sick, you got eight tables now but I'm there in the front to help. I'm helping. I'm moving. [01:37:51] Ryan Tamoush: And if a cook calls in sick? [01:37:52] Adnan Saleh: If a cook, I can't do, I can't do anything. [01:37:54] Ryan Tamoush: But then you get a server to cook, because you trained them. [01:37:56] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. That's exactly. Then I take a server, I'll say, "Judy, you're in the kitchen today. You're making $14 an hour." [01:38:03] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [01:38:03] Adnan Saleh: Yeah, meaning because they make tips. Let's face it. At that time I think it was seven, not even $7. So I said, "You're there $14 an hour." They love it. They go there in the kitchen. Yeah. So now I took a server from the from the dining room, now I have six tables no servers. I gave one each. They love it. They have extra tables. They know I'm on the floor to help them. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Anyway so we won, I was one of the guys who actually cut all of my, the cost, the food, labor, food cost, anything, employment, the whole thing. [01:38:40] Adnan Saleh: So my wife and I went, they took us to Florida, Orlando for three days. And I mean the treatment, not just us. I mean they had other people from other, you know. I wanna say all of us together there with our spouses maybe 400 of us. You know Denny's is a corporation, Hardee's, and they have other stores. [01:39:00] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. [01:39:01] Adnan Saleh: So all of them, they bought them to Orlando. Anything you want that day, anything, money, they give you. You go to your room, there is chocolate, there is... For three days you feel like you're a king. The last night they had a surprise for us. I never knew who she was but my wife knew her. They have a singer for us, Whitney Houston. [01:39:23] Ryan Tamoush: Oh wow. [01:39:25] Adnan Saleh: I know. I had no idea who was but my wife knew her. Yeah, she sang for us. I mean that's how appreciative they were. Yeah. I know. [01:39:34] Ryan Tamoush: Quite the experience. So you had a good, you had a good stint with Denny's. [01:39:38] Adnan Saleh: It was nice. Then I wanted to move. We moved to Riverside County, and they gave me another restaurant there in Perris. [01:39:49] Ryan Tamoush: So this is Riverside County- [01:39:51] Adnan Saleh: Riverside County. [01:39:52] Ryan Tamoush: Probably, early '90s? [01:39:54] Adnan Saleh: You're right. Now, now we're talking about 1990. Yeah, 1990, we purchased a home there in a community called Canyon Lake. It's in Riverside County. And I was there for one year, then I said, "No more restaurants for me. I'm done." I was tired actually. [01:40:10] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. What was it that you were done with in terms of the restaurant business? You just wanted something different? [01:40:18] Adnan Saleh: Employees. [01:40:19] Ryan Tamoush: Employees? Yeah. [01:40:19] Adnan Saleh: Employees. Not the customer. Customers, no problem. You can handle the customers. If he's waiting five minutes, so I chit-chat for 10 minutes and he'll forget that he ordered even. That's not problem. But the servers, you know, calling in sick, and my boyfriend's birthday or my girlfriend's birthday, we have to travel. [01:40:35] Adnan Saleh: So I got real estate license. I failed the first time. I passed it the second time. And I worked for a guy who was selling VA and FHA homes. I don't know if you're familiar with those or not. [01:40:51] Ryan Tamoush: The VA home loans and the- [01:40:53] Adnan Saleh: Which is zero down. [01:40:54] Ryan Tamoush: That's right [01:40:55] Adnan Saleh: But I worked for, were repos. Was a repo for VA, a repo for FHA. You know some people would just walk away from their homes and I worked for repos basically. Once a month HUD sends your list of what is available and you as a real estate agent, you advertise them, do whatever it takes to find a buyer for them and you make a bid basically. You may lose, you might win, I mean, yeah exactly the buyers. [01:41:27] Ryan Tamoush: Pretty genius idea to get some big cash. [01:41:30] Adnan Saleh: Exactly, yeah. That's what they- [01:41:32] Ryan Tamoush: Looking for real money. [01:41:32] Adnan Saleh: That's what they do these guys and, you know there's a lot of competition there. A lot of people were into it. A lot of real estate people were in it. [01:41:37] Ryan Tamoush: Of course. [01:41:38] Adnan Saleh: And, the reason I left that company also, I worked with one guy actually from home. You need, as a real estate agent, you need a broker. You can't actually sell homes without the broker. So I worked for one guy. One time I sold a house in Vista. It was a repo in Vista, and this guy was in Riverside. Right? [01:42:05] Adnan Saleh: Got a bid, the people signed the bid. That's how much they're asking, how much they want... They made an offer basically, which we do every week. So I went to my broker. I said, "This is..." He said, "This is Vista, San Diego County." I said, "Yeah." He said, "No, we're in Riverside." I said, "What do you care? [Laughs.] What do you care if it's Riverside or S-" He was so upset that I went to, sold the home in San Diego. He won't sign it. [01:42:37] Ryan Tamoush: Why is that? [01:42:38] Adnan Saleh: I have no idea. He wants maybe to control us to be just on Riverside only. [01:42:43] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [01:42:43] Adnan Saleh: I was living in Riverside, but I don't care. I'll sell something in Omaha, Nebraska. I mean, I'm, I'm here to make money, my friend. Come on! [Laughs.] [01:42:51] Ryan Tamoush: You're here to make money. Yeah. [01:42:52] Adnan Saleh: That's funny. He said, "No." I said, "You kidding me?" He said, "Yeah." I said, "Okay, well, I don't work for you then". Then I had, I struggled for three, four days. I need a broker to sign it, to submit the offer. Maybe I win, maybe not, maybe someone else get the offer. So God bless his heart, my buddy, his last name is Hilton. He's dead now. He was a broker, but he was working for brokerage firm, meaning he wasn't really.... [01:43:28] Adnan Saleh: The firm wasn't his, but he has a broker license. So I went to him, I said, "Look, I have this offer. I'll give you more than you expect even from your real estate. Just sign it if I get it." He said, "Sure." He signed it. I made an offer and they took it. The final, luckily, I got it, so I gave him the money. I told, we promised him and I said, "You know what? I'm not gonna work for none of that crap stuff anymore." [01:44:00] Adnan Saleh: So I went, I said I wanna work on new homes, selling new homes. I saw an ad It says, "New home salesperson." At that time I think we had Riverside... What was the name of the name of the newspaper at the time? Not The Tribune. Anyway- [01:44:23] Ryan Tamoush: L.A. Times? [01:44:24] Adnan Saleh: No, it was a Riverside actually. [Inaudible.] [01:44:26] Ryan Tamoush: Daily News. Oh, oh, oh in Riverside. [01:44:28] Adnan Saleh: It's not in business anymore. Anyway, I saw the ad, so I called and she said, "Oh, come on in for an interview." I said, "Sure." I went there for an interview. I'm not working now. I just quit. I said, "Forget it. I don't, I don't want... I wanna do a new homes." So I went there. [01:44:45] Adnan Saleh: She interviewed me and said, "Okay. Well, I'll give you a call." I said, "Oh, great." I went week, two weeks, three weeks, nothing happened. It turned out to be it's an employment agency. I had no idea. I thought, you know, they're hiring for new homes. "How come you haven't called me? You liked me supposedly," and all that stuff. [01:45:10] Adnan Saleh: So I called her. I said, "I haven't heard from you." She said, "Well, we haven't got any work." I said, "What do you mean work?" Yeah. "What are you talking-" [01:45:20] Ryan Tamoush: I thought you were selling new homes. [01:45:20] Adnan Saleh: Yeah, "What are you talking about?" Then she told me she's in like, some kind of an agency, employment agency. I said, "Oh, okay." She said, "But you know what? Let me call you in a week and we have something going on." I said, "Okay." So she called me and she said... At that time I was living at Riverside, in Canyon Lake. I don't know if you're familiar with it or not. [01:45:44] Ryan Tamoush: No. [01:45:44] Adnan Saleh: It's next to Lake Elsinore and Temecula there. [01:45:48] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [01:45:49] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. So I said, "Okay, no problem." So she called me, she said, "How would you like to work in Hesperia?" I said. "This weekend. For the weekend only, this weekend." I said, "Where is Hesperia?" She says, "Oh, up around 70 miles from here, but they will pay for the gas." I said, "Who are they?" She said, "Oh, the company that you're gonna work for for that weekend." [01:46:15] Adnan Saleh: Called Forecast Homes, by the way. I said, "Okay, no problem." And well, they'll give me $12 an hour? I'll take a penny, just get me in. I want a new home. I said, "No problem." She gave me the address. I said, "What should I do when I get there?" Says, "When you get there you ask for the manager of the project that is there." That was new to me. [01:46:40] Adnan Saleh: "And ask her what to do and she'll tell you what need to be done because it's grand opening for a new community for Forecast Homes." I said, "Okay." I went there. I went to the manager and I said, "I'm here for the weekend from the employment agency." She said, "Oh, okay. Oh, hi. What's your name?" I said, "My name is Adnan." [01:47:00] Adnan Saleh: Very nice. I said, "What should I do?" She said, "You see that table in the front of the office before they enter the office? You sit down there. Anybody who walks in, you ask them for their name and their phone number." I said, "That's it?" She said, "That's it." I said, "Okay." For today and tomorrow, meaning Saturday and Sunday. [01:47:22] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [01:47:23] Adnan Saleh: That's an easy job, no problem. Yeah, I like, you know, I liked to joke, I like to have fun. That day, man, ba, boom, boom, boom, boom. [01:47:30] Ryan Tamoush: Running the floor is no problem. [01:47:32] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. I'm just basically just taking names. They're having fun with the kids, with the moms and the dads, and the whole thing. And that day went by and I came home Saturday. And then you have to go back Sunday because it was the weekend only, for Saturday and Sunday. Went back Sunday, b- b- b- b- bum, working. Have fun. [01:47:51] Adnan Saleh: The same thing. I did the same thing, having fun. By the end of the day, because it was grand opening for that particular community. I had the marketing manager of Forecast Homes. I didn't know at the time they had twenty communities like this. Twenty communities like this one. So I had the marketing, in charge of the marketing for those twenty communities, and the sales manager, God bless his heart, I love him, Jim Davis, his name. [01:48:21] Adnan Saleh: They both came to me and said, "Where do you work at?" I said, "Nowhere. Just for the agency." He says, "How would you like to work for us?" I swear to God. I mean, wow, my heart just went... Phew! That's what I wanted, man. [01:48:38] Ryan Tamoush: So this new job that you were being hired for, what was it exactly? Was it, it wasn't just collecting names and numbers anymore. [01:48:44] Adnan Saleh: Oh, no, no. Now you are in charge of your own community. But remember, I'm new, so they're not gonna give me the best communities either. [01:48:53] Ryan Tamoush: Got you. [01:48:55] Adnan Saleh: So they gave me a community in San Jacinto. You know where San Jacinto is? Yeah. Next to Hemet. San Jacinto, yeah. Next to Hemet, yeah. And they had, I think, fourteen homes, because I guess at that time was, what year was that? '92? [01:49:09] Ryan Tamoush: Well, for the sake of the interview describe where San Jacinto is. Describe where it is. [01:49:14] Adnan Saleh: San Jacinto would be probably northeast San Diego? North, northeast San Diego or- [01:49:25] Ryan Tamoush: So you're slowly coming north from San Diego. [01:49:27] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. Exactly, yeah. Oh, yeah. And they're still in Riverside County. San Jacinto actually and Hemet is still San Jacinto county, which is perfect. From my home, I don't have to take the freeway. Shh, I'm there. And perfect job. You work... Get there at ten o'clock. Five o'clock you close, you go home. [01:49:43] Ryan Tamoush: Perfect. [01:49:44] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. So they gave me a community. They had, at the time, I think fifteen homes, they're all built ready to go out to be sold. They can't sell them. They couldn't sell them. So Jim Davis said, "This is the community we're gonna give you." And I said, "How about the commission?" He said, "Adnan, you don't wanna work on commission." He said, "We'll still give you $12 an hour." I said, "Okay." [01:50:11] Adnan Saleh: Look, remember, I'm not gonna argue with the guy. I said, "Okay, $12 an hour." And Forecast Homes, they meet every Wednesday, all the sales people with their staff and the whole thing, and they go through the sales per week. What did you sell? And, "Oh, let's see, Moreno Valley, how many houses do you have?" "Oh, I sold only one." [01:50:35] Adnan Saleh: "I said you gotta sell two. You sold only one, so what do you think next week? Ba-bum, ba-bum, ba-bum." So look at me, I said, "Nothing. Zero." Okay, no problem. Because, you know, nobody before me for a year didn't sell anything. They figured leave him alone. So I learned the business, how it works, the commission. [01:50:56] Adnan Saleh: These guys driving Mercedes, BMWs, the whole shebang. I say, "Wow, they must be making good money." So I went back to my San Jacinto. I was there for a month. I didn't sell anything. But I was taking names and people who are interested in it, and I don't wanna sell them if I'm making $12 an hour. I wanna make sure I'm gonna sell them when I'm on commission. [01:51:23] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [01:51:24] Adnan Saleh: Heck yeah. [01:51:24] Ryan Tamoush: So you, you used the info that you were getting while you were- [01:51:27] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. They call that sandbagging. [01:51:28] Ryan Tamoush: You sandbagged him. [01:51:31] Adnan Saleh: I sandbagged. So, until, because I figured, you know what? They could care less if I sell something or not. They're not really interested in selling those homes. If he sells them, fine. If not, you know, well, that's okay. [01:51:42] Ryan Tamoush: But you were interested. [01:51:43] Adnan Saleh: I'm interested. I know, exactly. Exactly. So when I had few of them sandbagged, I went to Jim Davis. I said, "Jim, come on, man. I want to be, you know, motivated. Give me a commission." He said, "Adnan, come on. You've been there for a month and a half. You haven't sold even one. Why would you wanna be on commission?" I said, "I don't know, I feel, look at these guys. I mean, they're so motivated. I'm... You give me $12 an hour." [01:52:11] Adnan Saleh: He said, "Adnan, let's say we'll give you a $12 an hour, and if anything you sell, we'll give you a commission on it instead of $12 an hour." "I love you, Jim." He was a wonderful, wonderful man. I said, "Right on." [Snaps, claps.] Went and start dancing. Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. [Laughs.] [01:52:33] Ryan Tamoush: So talk about this though. So now, you're on commission. [01:52:37] Adnan Saleh: Now commission, I wanna sell them all. [01:52:38] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. [01:52:38] Adnan Saleh: Tuk, tuk, every week, I give him two. One. Two. One. Two. Until I finish them all. [01:52:43] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [01:52:44] Adnan Saleh: Yes. And then they had another, then after I sold them all, they send me to Temecula for another community... No, I'm sorry, in Menifee, which is Menifee and Canyon Lake. I can walk actually to my job in Menifee. And they gave me higher percentage if I sell them, the same thing, because nothing is going on. And the percentage was higher. Beautiful, man. I went there. I've never pressured people to buy. The key is, because let's face it, we're all salespeople at one point. I mean, yes, you work, whatever you do, you still have to sell yourself. [01:53:24] Ryan Tamoush: That's right. [01:53:25] Adnan Saleh: We're all salespeople. People can tell if you're phony or not. I've never pressured people to buy. I say most of them, they come, "We really like the house, but, but..." I said, "But what?" "But, you know, Saturday and Sunday, we were looking all over. We can't make up our mind." I said, "If you like it, I can put your name on it for a week. You don't have to pay me anything. You don't even call me after the week." "Really?!" "Yeah." I mean, who cares, I mean. [01:53:51] Ryan Tamoush: But you got them attached to the idea. [01:53:53] Adnan Saleh: Exactly, exactly. But I don't want to sell something to them and then they gonna cancel. To me, it doesn't make sense. I have to go to the office and say I sold something and it's only the next week they canceled. I said, "Forget it. Let them give me deposit when they..." So anyway, I did really very well there at Menifee. Then they had a community in Moreno Valley, brand new community now. [01:54:17] Ryan Tamoush: Where is this? In Moreno Valley you said? [01:54:19] Adnan Saleh: Moreno Valley. Yeah. You know Moreno Valley. Yeah. [01:54:20] Ryan Tamoush: Yep. So Moreno Valley is actually north of where you were before, correct? [01:54:25] Adnan Saleh: Mm-hmm. [01:54:26] Ryan Tamoush: So- [01:54:26] Adnan Saleh: But still, it's only, for me, it's from my home, fifteen minutes. [01:54:30] Ryan Tamoush: You're just selling houses from San Diego all the way up to Moreno. [01:54:34] Adnan Saleh: No, now I'm working for new homes. No more repos. [01:54:37] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah, but- [01:54:37] Adnan Saleh: No, exactly. I'm just selling new homes. [01:54:39] Ryan Tamoush: But new home developments, you just, you're selling them. [01:54:41] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. Went to Moreno Valley. [01:54:43] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [01:54:44] Adnan Saleh: I'll shorten it a little bit because we're going on for too much on this community. Because I enjoyed that job. [01:54:49] Ryan Tamoush: The real estate game is, it's a lot to get into for sure. [01:54:52] Adnan Saleh: Yes. I really enjoyed that job. I loved it. [01:54:54] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [01:54:54] Adnan Saleh: I did it for 10 years actually. [01:54:57] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. [01:54:58] Adnan Saleh: And then I said, "You know what? I had enough. I don't need anymore. I'm done." I was blessed actually, then I said, "Enough". [01:55:06] Ryan Tamoush: But how, I mean, just this experience alone, what I'm gathering is that you were extremely resourceful and patient. You use some sort of just intuition and wit, and you had timing in mind. Is that correct? Or explain to me- [01:55:31] Adnan Saleh: Yes. I wasn't rushing because my wife is working also, so we weren't desperate. [01:55:35] Ryan Tamoush: Ah, I see. I see. [01:55:36] Adnan Saleh: I wasn't desperate. I have, you know, she works for a community college. Actually, at the time she worked for UCR [University of California at Riverside], and we have the benefits. She's got a paycheck. Our mortgage was practically nothing. So I wasn't desperate to sell something. I don't wanna... Even to the customers, I wasn't desperate to sell something. [01:55:55] Ryan Tamoush: Where do you think that ability to relate to people and where do you think your marketing abilities, your sales abilities came from? Because you weren't raised into sales. You were raised in Jaffa, and then moved through Jerusalem. [01:56:13] Adnan Saleh: No, I haven't... Yes, exactly. [01:56:15] Ryan Tamoush: Then your whole story, you were never born to be a salesman. You just are. [01:56:20] Adnan Saleh: Be yourself. Basically, be yourself. Be kind. Don't lie to people. Be truthful. That's what I was. I mean, I joke with everybody. I mean, you have to have a lot of fun. I'm there to have fun. I'm there for eight hours. I might as well have fun. I don't like to tell people some, "Oh, yeah, you know, this one sold, but if you buy today, I'll give you that much." [01:56:49] Adnan Saleh: I don't like that. That's not... I mean, they used to send us to those seminars. "He who speaks first loses," and all that crap. I mean, come on. Yeah, like, "If you have someone, husband and wife, they want to buy a house from you, you tell them what you offer and be quiet." That's in the seminar. "He who speaks first loses." Once you're quiet, meaning don't speak first. Let them speak. What does that mean? I mean, come on. They're humans. [01:57:21] Ryan Tamoush: That's right. [01:57:21] Adnan Saleh: I mean, I'm not gonna wait for... This is reality here. Hello? So that's, to me, it just, I was me, myself. I love to have fun. I love to joke. I love to, you know, this is me. So in 1997, actually... I won a lot of awards, by the way. [01:57:39] Ryan Tamoush: As a real estate agent? [01:57:41] Adnan Saleh: As a, yeah. And you're the first one I'll tell, I don't have any award. I used to get them and junk them. I don't care about that stuff. And I was driving the least expensive, cheapest car of the salespeople, and I was number one salesman. 1997 I became number one in sales of new homes in United States of America. [01:58:08] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [01:58:09] Adnan Saleh: Yes, sir. [01:58:10] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [01:58:12] Adnan Saleh: 1997. [01:58:14] Ryan Tamoush: That's amazing. [01:58:14] Adnan Saleh: New homes, not resales- [01:58:16] Ryan Tamoush: That's right. [01:58:16] Adnan Saleh: New homes, yes. [01:58:18] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [01:58:18] Adnan Saleh: And so I won a lot of awards at Riverside, but that didn't mean a lot to me actually. I just think that I'm there to do the job and all, every award I get, I just junk it, junk it, junk it. '97 award, I was hoping to get it. Then Jim Davis was gone. We had a new lady who became a general manager. Her parents live in Texas, and the award was supposed to be given in Texas. [01:58:44] Adnan Saleh: Instead of sending me to Texas she said, "Adnan, would you mind? Instead, you don't have to go there. I can go there, represent you, and bring the award." I said, "Fine." Because she knew I'm low. I don't really care about that stuff. I care about the paycheck. You go bring me that award. She kept it. [Laughs.] [01:59:02] Ryan Tamoush: She assigned it to herself? [01:59:03] Adnan Saleh: She kept, she kept it. Which I told her, "I don't mind, I mean, I don't really care." But that's... that's in... [01:59:07] Ryan Tamoush: 1997. [01:59:08] Adnan Saleh: Then I was there for 10 years. I looked at my wife. I said, "You know what? I think..." I mean, how can I say it nicely without being... I don't like to brag. I'm not a bragger. I don't, but for you, I'll tell that, unfortunately it's gonna be recorded. I made enough. I made enough. I had enough money. I don't need, really need to work anymore. I was 49 years old at the time. We built a house in Morro Bay. We bought the property. We build the house. We moved here in '99. No, '99 the house was done. [01:59:46] Adnan Saleh: And then my last day with Forecast Homes went on, was on 9/11, 2001. It was a Wednesday. Remember I said Wednesday we have meetings at our Rancho Cucamonga office? That was my last meeting, and I was going home. My wife was already in Morro Bay. We lived in Morro Bay. We built a house in Morro Bay. She was in Morro Bay. She called me, she said... [02:00:13] Adnan Saleh: She was in San Diego. I think she has a meeting. She called me, she said, "Where are you?" I said, "I'm at a gas station putting gas. I'm going home. That's it. Today's my last day." She said, "Did you hear?" I said, "Hear what?" 9/11. I said, "I had no idea." She said, "Go straight home." [Laughs.] I said, "Oh, okay." That's how I remember when my last day actually was exactly, 9/11. [02:00:38] Ryan Tamoush: Your wife was telling you to come straight home. [02:00:39] Adnan Saleh: Come straight home. [02:00:40] Ryan Tamoush: Why? [02:00:41] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. You know, she's afraid just in case, you know, 9/11. [02:00:43] Ryan Tamoush: Just in case of what? [02:00:43] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. I really had no idea what happened, but until I got home, I put the TV, it was all over, you know, the media. [02:00:49] Ryan Tamoush: What was her main concern about getting you home? [02:00:53] Adnan Saleh: Being dark and somebody's gonna attack you probably. Yeah, she was worried. [02:00:57] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. [02:00:57] Adnan Saleh: I wasn't really worried. I mean, to me, I was, maybe I'm naive or something, but I'm good to people. Why would I, why would they hurt me? [02:01:05] Ryan Tamoush: Right. [02:01:05] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. But luckily nothing happened, so, we got home. And stayed home for Morro Bay for a year and a half. I didn't do anything. I just collect my... Because the new homes, what they do, if you sell on reservation, you get 50% of the sale. And when the people are, they get a loan, and their loan approved, you get three quarter percent of your commission, and when it's sold, you get 100%. [02:01:44] Adnan Saleh: So I still left some homes behind me there that still, some of them still even haven't started building yet. But it was approved. Let's say the loan was approved, so I collect three quarter percent from that commission. Yeah, I know. It was a lot of fun. [02:02:00] Ryan Tamoush: Very well. [02:02:01] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. So- [02:02:02] Ryan Tamoush: So after 9/11- [02:02:03] Adnan Saleh: After 9/11, came here, year and a half. [02:02:06] Ryan Tamoush: Where is here? [02:02:07] Adnan Saleh: In Morro Bay. We built a home, we build a home, Morro Bay, yeah. [02:02:10] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [02:02:11] Adnan Saleh: We thought it was our dream home. It wasn't. [Laughs.] [02:02:16] Ryan Tamoush: This current address is your dream home, correct? [02:02:17] Adnan Saleh: That's correct, this is the dream home, yeah. Over there- [02:02:18] Ryan Tamoush: I was gonna say, if this is not your dream home, I don't know how you can dream bigger. [02:02:25] Adnan Saleh: No, no. The problem is that when Morro Bay... You know, you have ocean view. You know, you think about where you came from back. Let's say, even in San Diego, you look at the San Diego people, "Ocean view. Wow, man! Ocean view." [02:02:44] Ryan Tamoush: So this is Morro Bay, 2001 or 2000? [02:02:48] Adnan Saleh: 2001, but the house was done in 1999. [02:02:50] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. That's right. [02:02:51] Adnan Saleh: We left it empty until we moved here. 2001 we moved to the house. [02:02:55] Ryan Tamoush: Good. [02:02:56] Adnan Saleh: And Thea actually, my wife, was still working with UCR. She goes maybe once every [inaudible. But she worked mostly from home, from UC Riverside. But then she found a job with Cuesta. And her life went on. So I always never had to worry about, whatcha-ma-call-it, like insurance or anything because it's through her basically. [02:03:19] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. [02:03:20] Adnan Saleh: So after a year and a half I said, "You know, I wanna open my own business," like a little deli maybe just to keep me busy. So I found this place. No, that's right, this place. Oh, that's... No, no. Okay, I have to get back there. I wanted to work in resale. After a year and a half of building furniture and so on in the house I said, "I wanna work on real estate. I wanna see how real estate goes here." Resale, I've never worked resale. So I worked for resale for three months maybe. [02:04:00] Adnan Saleh: I didn't sell anything. Because it's just cutthroat. These guys, man. It's sad, but that's how real estate is, cutthroat. I worked there for three months and floor time, you have floor time. I don't know what, ike two, three hours floor time. Basically you're answering, you're like an answering service for other agent who's been there for fifteen years. [02:04:29] Adnan Saleh: And God bless her heart, Zeena Wathen, I'll never forget her. She died unfortunately. She listened to me when I talked to customers, when I answered the phone. I'm on the floor, but she comes there every day even though she doesn't have floor time. She said it's her job, 9:00 to 5:00 she's in the office, she's working. [02:04:49] Adnan Saleh: So one day she came to me, sayid, "Adnan, when someone calls in, a customer, even if they call for Zeena. Zeena's not here, you take it." I said, "What? They asked for Ze-" She said, "They're not here. I'm not here. You take it. You're just answering the phones." I said, "You're right. I am just answering phones here. [Laughs.] I'm not doing anything." I said, "You know what? It's not for me." I don't like cutthroat and, yeah, it's not for me. So I said, "Let's go back to restaurants." [02:05:22] Ryan Tamoush: Good. [02:05:23] Adnan Saleh: That's when I opened Jaffa actually. [02:05:25] Ryan Tamoush: So you opened Jaffa Cafe? [02:05:27] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. Jaffa wasn't actually my idea. [02:05:29] Ryan Tamoush: Whose was it? [02:05:30] Adnan Saleh: It was, Allah yerhamo ya rab, God bless his heart. His name is Mohammed, Abu Ali. We used to call him Abu Ali. He went by Mike. So when I was looking for, to open a restaurant, there was a liquor store for sale. You know where Petra is now? [02:05:53] Ryan Tamoush: Yes. [02:05:53] Adnan Saleh: Yeah, that's the whole thing actually. It was a liquor store before I got it. And it was for sale, the business was, not the building. The business was for sale. [02:06:03] Adnan Saleh: And the guy I was working with in real estate, he asked me, he said, "What do you think if we take it together and we have a liquor store?" I said, "No, no, no. I'm gonna open a restaurant, not a liquor store." He said, "Okay. Well just..." I said, "We'll keep it a liquor store for a while." So we did, went as partners in it. Later on to become, just a deli. [02:06:24] Adnan Saleh: Monday through Friday. Saturday I go home, two o'clock. I don't wanna work. That's it, I'm done. Just something to keep me busy. I went there and I... His brother came, start working on the liquor store, cleaning the bottles. And I said, "What are you doing?" He said, "Well, you know, we have to..." I said, "No, no, no. That's gonna be a restaurant, that's not gonna be a liquor store. We're gonna get rid of that stuff." I love it. [02:06:47] Ryan Tamoush: So you came into the liquor store and said, "Take 'em down." [02:06:50] Adnan Saleh: Yeah, exactly. Like he wants to wipe it off. "We're selling liquor." I said, "No, no, no, my friend. That's not..." And you know. So anyway, for three months I said, "You know what? I'll buy you out." So I bought him out, and he left. [02:07:03] Ryan Tamoush: So what was setting up Jaffa Cafe like? [02:07:07] Adnan Saleh: Jaffa Cafe, after we got rid of the liquor, sold the liquor. Except I kept the liquor license because I know the liquor license is very expensive, so I kept that. And I was cleaning up one day, the place, just to have it ready before the cleanup people or the construction people start coming in to do the work. [02:07:30] Adnan Saleh: Mike, Abu Ali, Mohammed, he's Lebanese. He walked in and said... He was... He's on a cane. He said, "Hi." I said, "Hi." He said, "My name is Mohammed." I said, "Oh, Mohammed. Hi. Adnan." He said, "Oh, Muneer told me..." There's another guy used to work at the liquor store. His name is Muneer. He says, "They told me you were gonna open a restaurant here." [02:07:51] Adnan Saleh: I said, "Yeah." He said, " Oh, okay." So all of a sudden he's helping me cleaning up and... "What is he doing?" So, the Lebanese, I love the way they talk. Tak, tak, tak, tak, tak. We'll do this, so quick, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak. You know, tak, tak, tak, tak, tak. Everything, tak, tak, tak, tak tak. What does this guy tak, tak, tak, tak, tak. [02:08:07] Ryan Tamoush: Fast talking, hard working. [02:08:07] Adnan Saleh: Oh man, he was won- oh, he was wonderful. One day passed. The next day, all of a sudden he came back again. I said, "Do you have a job?" He said, "Yeah, but I'm on disability now." That's why, yeah. He had injury. He was a chef by the way. Chef at the Morro Bay- [02:08:23] Ryan Tamoush: What you don't do. [02:08:24] Adnan Saleh: What? I'm sorry. [02:08:25] Ryan Tamoush: That's what you don't do. You don't cook. [02:08:27] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying. Exactly. He was a chef. So he was working at the Morro Bay Inn, Inn at Morro Bay. [02:08:34] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. [02:08:35] Adnan Saleh: He was a chef there. But he was injured. So the next day he came all of a sudden he clean up with me. The third day all of a sudden he said, "This is what we're going to serve here." [02:08:45] Adnan Saleh: I said, "He's got his own menu." I said, "Excuse me?" He said, "This is what we're gonna serve, Middle Eastern food." I said, "Mike, come on. I'm here. I wanna work Monday through Friday, two o'clock I want to go home." He said, "Adnan, I don't care. My dream was to have this liquor store a Middle Eastern restaurant." [02:09:08] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [02:09:09] Adnan Saleh: Ah, wallahi, I'll never forget it, man. [02:09:09] Ryan Tamoush: What was your idea for the restaurant? [02:09:09] Adnan Saleh: Just a little deli maybe and me and other employees who would get there for- [02:09:12] Ryan Tamoush: That's right. But like American style of deli? [02:09:14] Adnan Saleh: Yeah, ten o'clock, two o'clock go home basically. That's it. I don't wanna work too hard. Alhamdulillah, khalas ya'ni. [02:09:25] Ryan Tamoush: So Mohammed comes up with a Middle Eastern food. [02:09:27] Adnan Saleh: Mohammed comes in with the big menu like this. I said, "Well. But Mike, I'm not gonna open, I'm not gonna work Saturday, Sunday. 2:00, 1:30, I'm going home." He said, "Adnan, I don't care. You put the money, you open the place. I'll take care of the whole thing." He said, "I don't have the money," but he said, "I don't have the money, Adnan, but you do that, I'll take care of it." I figured, you know what? Let's shake hands. We shook hands and I trusted the guy. It's amazing. [02:10:01] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [02:10:01] Adnan Saleh: So we opened the place. He was, oh man, he was... Mike. The restaurant, we got so busy. It used to be full, from his kitchen, he used to yell, "Where is everybody?!" [Laughs.] That's him, Mike, man. He was sooo wonderful. [02:10:24] Ryan Tamoush: He must have loved it. [02:10:25] Adnan Saleh: He loved it, man. He worked... I used to go there eleven o'clock, 1:30 I leave. That's, he kept his... He said, even sometimes, he said, "Adnan, just go home. Just go home." So that's how and we were successful- [02:10:41] Ryan Tamoush: Unbelievable. So you were so self-sufficient your whole life. You came here on your own efforts. You went through trial and error, horrible bosses, decent bosses. Some people learned to trust you, some people chose to be ignorant. [02:11:00] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. [02:11:01] Ryan Tamoush: But then through all that, you allowed- [02:11:04] Adnan Saleh: Stayed positive. You gotta stay positive, man. Yeah you have to st... [Speaks to dog.] Are you stuck here? [02:11:08] Ryan Tamoush: Just stay positive. [02:11:09] Adnan Saleh: You are stuck. [02:11:11] Ryan Tamoush: Stay positive. That's, that's- [02:11:12] Adnan Saleh: Stay positive. That's exactly it. [02:11:14] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. [02:11:14] Adnan Saleh: Always say today is my best, always always you have to say this is the best day of my life. [02:11:20] Ryan Tamoush: What about... Wait, say that again. [02:11:21] Adnan Saleh: This is the best day of my life. [02:11:23] Ryan Tamoush: Yes. [02:11:24] Adnan Saleh: Because yesterday is gone. Tomorrow, who knows? Today we're here. I always say that, "Today is the best day of my life." [02:11:30] Ryan Tamoush: And on one of those best days of your life with Mohammed, what was it about Mohammed that you felt like you can let him take the reins? [02:11:38] Adnan Saleh: He, I honestly, I wish, I wished at the time, I would've met him when I came to this country. Strong, short, strong man. And he is decent, honest, funny. Funny, funny. I mean, if you have a bear come at you, he will go fight with the bear for you. He will be killed for you, this guy. Unfortunately we lost him at 50 plus years old. [02:12:12] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [02:12:12] Adnan Saleh: He died, yeah. [02:12:13] Ryan Tamoush: When did he pass away? [02:12:14] Adnan Saleh: He passed away in 19-, in 2007. [02:12:18] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [02:12:19] Adnan Saleh: End of 2007, yeah. He was working. I remember it was a Friday. And I don't know if you want to record that or not, but you don't have to. Okay, if- [02:12:31] Ryan Tamoush: Of course. [02:12:31] Adnan Saleh: Okay. [02:12:31] Ryan Tamoush: Anything you like. [02:12:32] Adnan Saleh: Okay. But that's because I love Mike. I mean, to me- [02:12:35] Ryan Tamoush: He's part of your life. [02:12:36] Adnan Saleh: He is, he is, he is, he is Jaffa. He is the Jaffa Guy, not me. Honestly. Because when we, then after we felt we were succeeding the first year in Jaffa, we expanded actually. And in the kitchen, I put Abu Ali's Kitchen because he's Abu Ali. Yeah. It's his kitchen. [02:12:53] Ryan Tamoush: That is absolutely endearing. [02:12:56] Adnan Saleh: When he passed away. [Pause.] I'm sorry. [02:13:03] Ryan Tamoush: No, it's okay. He was a dear friend. [02:13:07] Adnan Saleh: He was the best, man. It was a Friday. Friday, you know? he was in the kitchen, he fell down. I said, "What's going on, Mohammed?" He said, "I don't know, man." Excuse me. [02:13:23] Adnan Saleh: "What's going on?" He said, "My back. My back hurts." I took him for an X-ray. Cancer all over him. Metastasized all over his body. She told me, "Bring him back on Monday." Just in case. They wanna make sure. Metastasized all over his body. To come back Monday. Excuse me, I gotta stop. [02:13:58] Ryan Tamoush: Okay, we're gonna pause. [02:13:59] Adnan Saleh: Thank you. [02:14:05] Ryan Tamoush: So after Mike passed away, the chef of Jaffa, the creator, the mind behind Jaffa. [02:14:11] Adnan Saleh: Yes. [02:14:12] Ryan Tamoush: He passed away and...? [02:14:14] Adnan Saleh: He suffered for, he suffered for six months. He suffered actually for six months, and took him back and forth, back and forth. Anyway, from cancer, lung cancer. And at one point he came to me, he said... [02:14:28] Adnan Saleh: No, I actually went to the doctor, because I used to take him to do the chemo almost two or three times a week. And he still smoked. I asked the doctor, I said, "He still smokes. Should he smoke?" He said, "Let him smoke." I mean, "Let him smoke." I said, "Mike, you can smoke all you want." He was so happy to hear that. [Laughs.] "The doctor told me you can smoke. Just keep smoking, man." [02:14:54] Ryan Tamoush: About time someone understands. [02:14:56] Adnan Saleh: I mean... Exactly. He used to smoke like two packs a day, this guy. [02:14:59] Ryan Tamoush: Goodness. [02:14:59] Adnan Saleh: I know. Since he was 15. The doctor said, "Let him smoke. You're not gonna stop him now because, you know... It's all about his body." [02:15:09] Adnan Saleh: So we put him in hospice, and one time he was... He got to the point where he's on a wheelchair. He looked at me in the eye, he said, "Adnan." I said, "Yes?" He said, "Please let me go." I said, "Uh-uh. Not me, man. I'm not gonna..." Meaning... [02:15:28] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. [02:15:29] Adnan Saleh: Do something. He was tired. He was exhausted. He was exhausted, yeah. I never experienced that in my life except with him, actually. To see someone like this, from this to 60, 70 pounds. [02:15:42] Ryan Tamoush: He lost a lot of weight. [02:15:43] Adnan Saleh: Lost a lot of weight. Luckily, we had, he had... I mean, at one point we used to have fifteen, sixteen visitors to visit him in hospice. Finally, the nurses said, "Wait a minute. You guys come here a lot. Can you please make a schedule, one person at a time?" [02:16:00] Adnan Saleh: And we did. Everybody put their names, we'll come from this hour to this hour, to this hour to this hour, from this hour to this hour, because they don't want sixteen, fifteen... Because people loved him. He was, he was loved. So- [02:16:12] Ryan Tamoush: Strong, humorous Lebanese- [02:16:14] Adnan Saleh: Oh, man. [02:16:15] Ryan Tamoush: Good cook. [02:16:15] Adnan Saleh: Tak, Tak, Tak, tak, tak. Everything with him. Tak, tak, tak, tak. "Oh yeah!" Tak, tak, tak... [02:16:17] Ryan Tamoush: A man's man. [02:16:17] Adnan Saleh: Oh man. He was, he was wonderful. Until the end. When we made that schedule, Ryan, I mean, the ironic thing was.... All of us, we left, went to sleep. Everyone has a schedule. 1:30 in the morning that night, they called me and said he passed away. After we made the schedule. [02:16:41] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. [02:16:41] Adnan Saleh: Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah. So he passed away unfortunately, and then after that, I probably said, "You know what? Each time I go there, it's Mohammed." So I sold my business 2014... I lasted a little bit, 2014, and I said, "I'm done." [02:16:57] Ryan Tamoush: So after Mike, Mohammed, after he passed away in 2007 you stayed open till 2014. [02:17:02] Adnan Saleh: So I was done right after that. I stayed, yeah, exactly 2014. And then I said, "You know what? I'm done. It's not..." His name is there, Abu Ali and the whole thing. And so I sold the business, and I said, "I'm gonna retire." As in... [02:17:18] Ryan Tamoush: And take care and- [02:17:19] Adnan Saleh: Take care of this [02:17:20] Ryan Tamoush: Develop this beautiful land- [02:17:21] Adnan Saleh: Sold... Exactly. [02:17:22] Ryan Tamoush: That you and Mohammed worked for. [02:17:23] Adnan Saleh: And Mohammed. Mohammed is always on my heart, man. He's in everybody's heart. In every Arabic person, in every Jewish person, every Christian, every American person who got to know Mike, man, they loved Mike. They loved Mike. [02:17:40] Adnan Saleh: One day he felt good. One day he felt good. We went to Bassam's house. You met Bassam. [02:17:47] Ryan Tamoush: We will be meeting him soon. [02:17:48] Adnan Saleh: You will be meeting with him, yeah. I think Farah went there. Farah went there, yeah. So he told me. I saw him the other day. He's another wonderful, wonderful man, too. Went to his house. Mike felt good. He said, "I wanna barbecue for you guys today." He was barbecuing for one day only. He was, felt good, then he went back to where he was. [02:18:08] Adnan Saleh: I'm sorry, I go back to Mohammed all the time, and I apologize. [02:18:11] Ryan Tamoush: That's great. [02:18:11] Adnan Saleh: Yeah. Sorry. [02:18:12] Ryan Tamoush: Go back to Mohammed anytime you feel. [02:18:14] Adnan Saleh: Thank you. But that's it. That was, and there we are now, we're here. [02:18:17] Ryan Tamoush: Wow. One final barbecue. [02:18:19] Adnan Saleh: We're very, we're very blessed. We're very blessed. We're very blessed. [02:18:24] Ryan Tamoush: I have to say, this is a very beautiful story. [02:18:26] Adnan Saleh: Thank you. Thank you. [02:18:28] Ryan Tamoush: Because you've met many friends. You've mentioned Adnan Salah. [02:18:32] Adnan Saleh: Salah. Till now, we're still, till now. He's in Abu Dis now, yeah, visiting. [02:18:35] Ryan Tamoush: And then you had several other friends along the way. [02:18:38] Adnan Saleh: We have a lot of friends. We helped a lot of people, I hope. We tried at least as much as we could, yeah. And we're not gonna stop there. Now next is for Gaza. That's our goals for Gaza now. [02:18:50] Ryan Tamoush: That's right. [02:18:51] Adnan Saleh: Yes, sir. [02:18:51] Ryan Tamoush: And now we have, now you have another new friend, I hope. I like to believe that I am your friend. [02:18:57] Adnan Saleh: Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you. [02:19:00] Ryan Tamoush: And, you have another Lebanese- [02:19:01] Adnan Saleh: Thank you. Oh yeah, tak, tak, tak. [Laughs.] [02:19:04] Ryan Tamoush: Fast talking. [02:19:05] Adnan Saleh: Oh, man. [02:19:06] Ryan Tamoush: I can be. [02:19:06] Adnan Saleh: Oh, yeah. You know how that, habibi, yeah. Yeah, the first day when he came I said- [02:19:11] Ryan Tamoush: I could never compare to Mohammed, but what I love about your story is you, you tend to value relationships. [02:19:21] Adnan Saleh: Oh yeah. [02:19:21] Ryan Tamoush: This is what brought you through. [02:19:23] Adnan Saleh: We're all for each other. [02:19:24] Ryan Tamoush: Yes. [02:19:25] Adnan Saleh: I mean, as you know, we're a very small community here. [02:19:27] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. [02:19:27] Adnan Saleh: If we're not gonna help each other, who's gonna help us? Nobody. They look at us like we came out of nowhere probably. We have to help, just stick to each other- [02:19:34] Ryan Tamoush: What about the community instills that in us? Where do you think that comes from? Do you believe that the community sustains itself in some way? What attribute do you think brings the community together? [02:19:50] Adnan Saleh: Well, you have, you have to knock on doors. [02:19:53] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. [02:19:53] Adnan Saleh: You can't just say, "Oh, the community, it's awful because they never meet. We never sit down together." You have to continue communicating with people. [02:20:02] Adnan Saleh: Even the people I see now from Jaffa Cafe, people who live in San Louis, I'm talking about variety of people who live in San Luis Obispo. I see them in the street, even they don't recognize me. I just say, "Hey, John," or, "Hey, how you doing?" Oh, they look at me, "Oh, Mr. Jaffa." Because they forget my name, let's face it. [02:20:20] Adnan Saleh: But I still meet, there's a few people actually I meet with coffee just for coffee basically, because of Jaffa. I feel, I mean, this town here is so good to me. I feel like I was born in this town, because I know a lot of people. To me, that means a lot. I don't wanna be walking downtown San Diego looking around here like I'm a tourist. [02:20:43] Adnan Saleh: I'm not. I know people there. They know me and I know them. I respect them, vice versa, and they respect me, too. And I have people from this community, we meet on Mondays, Wednesday, Friday for coffee in Avila Beach. [02:20:56] Ryan Tamoush: Very nice. [02:20:56] Adnan Saleh: That to me, that's a plus. [02:20:58] Ryan Tamoush: You need to have community in any form. [02:20:59] Adnan Saleh: You're absolutely right. Oh yeah. You have to get involved. You can't just hide and say, "Well, I'm only one person." Yeah, but you count. Every person counts. Just like every vote counts. Yep. So I hope next, again, I'm gonna go back next to Gaza, because that's, as you know, is on everybody's mind, all those kids. [02:21:22] Ryan Tamoush: Inshallah. [02:21:23] Adnan Saleh: Inshallah. [02:21:24] Ryan Tamoush: What would be, is there anything else you would like to add to this story that you would want to document, whether it come from Palestine, the US, any point in your migration? Is there anything that comes to mind? [02:21:39] Adnan Saleh: Not really, no. I mean, you mean for people like immigrants to immigrate here to live here? [02:21:47] Ryan Tamoush: Yeah. I mean, if you were to say one thing about Palestine that directly embodies your life, something that you gained from living in Palestine, what would that one thing be? [02:22:03] Adnan Saleh: Respect to people, respect the elderly. Be humble because we were born humble. Let's face it. I mean most of us, most of us were refugees, in the refugee camps out of... People don't even think about those things. How do you go... Where do you go to the bathroom? Yes. [02:22:24] Ryan Tamoush: Not behind a rock. [02:22:25] Adnan Saleh: Not behind the rock exactly. where do you go, yeah, where do you go to the bathroom? There's no bathroom only for the sisters. The ladies. Exactly. And you come here see you have two people living there, you have three bedroom, three baths for two people. [02:22:42] Ryan Tamoush: And what would be the one message you would send or, an experience, anything that you would like to add about living in the US? What about the US means most to you? [02:22:59] Adnan Saleh: Gotta be careful on that one. Wouldn't wanna get into politics. [02:23:05] Ryan Tamoush: To you as an individual, a human, a person, what from the US means the most to you? What is it here? You talked about respect your elders and being humble. [02:23:19] Adnan Saleh: The freedom. [02:23:20] Ryan Tamoush: That is something you grabbed from Palestine. From the US, what is it that you appreciate most? [02:23:26] Adnan Saleh: The freedom. Freedom comes number one. Unfortunately, it's taken away from us now, from a lot of people. And to be honest with you, if me, I was 20, 22 years old coming to America now, I wouldn't even come to America. As foreigner, dark-skinned. Because of the discrimination. [02:23:52] Adnan Saleh: You know, it's... everything they're saying, and that tells you, anti-Semitic. Everything is anti-Semitic. What about Islamophobia? What about under Palestinians? A lot of them, as you know, we have Christian, Muslim, and we have Jewish people actually who are Palestinians, like Golda Meir. You know Golda Meir? [02:24:13] Adnan Saleh: Actually she had a … Have you ever listened to her? She said this. She said, "I am a Palestinian." [02:24:20] Ryan Tamoush: That's what, that's what being American is to you here, right? That you still have, you exist. [02:24:27] Adnan Saleh: Exactly. That's exactly it. That's what, I mean, I like to hear this. From a lot of people. Respect us. And like I said, my next trip will be Gaza, hopefully. [02:24:40] Ryan Tamoush: Is there anything else you would like to add to your story before I ask one last question? [02:24:44] Adnan Saleh: No, I'm good. [02:24:45] Ryan Tamoush: Okay. This one last question, I'd like to make a hypothetical with you. If you were given the opportunity to speak to the masses of the entire world, that you were given this chance to speak and everyone would hear you at the same time, what would you say? [02:25:07] Adnan Saleh: Anything I wanted, you mean, politics and all stuff? I'll stick with Palestine. Free Palestine. Ceasefire in Gaza. Rebuild Gaza. Give them their dignity. They're still human, just like everybody else. They have feelings. I just saw an article, an interview with a lieutenant colonel. His name is Anthony Aguilar. Anthony Aguilar. He actually was a lieutenant colonel and he went to Gaza because they... It's long story, but I'll be glad to even send it. I have it on my email. I'll be glad to send it to you. It's an hour and a half interview with, Carlson. What's his name? First name. [02:26:00] Ryan Tamoush: Tucker Carlson. [02:26:00] Adnan Saleh: Tucker Carlson. For an hour and a half. You will cry. This guy, he's an American. He's a Christian American. He calls himself Christian American. And he says, "Shame on us. Shame on us. Shame on us," on United States. The way we let Israelis treat those kids. [02:26:23] Ryan Tamoush: Coming from someone in the military. [02:26:25] Adnan Saleh: Yes, sir. I'll send it to you probably can watch it. For you at least, yeah. [02:26:29] Ryan Tamoush: Of course, I would love to watch that. Yeah. [02:26:29] Adnan Saleh: Yes. It's an hour and a half interview. Yeah. That's it. Just free Palestine. [02:26:34] Ryan Tamoush: Free Palestine. [02:26:34] Adnan Saleh: Let us rebuild Gaza. We will go there and rebuild it even. [02:26:39] Ryan Tamoush: I would love to join you, Adnan. [02:26:41] Adnan Saleh: I would love to have you, man. Yeah, would love to have you there with us. [02:26:44] Ryan Tamoush: This has been an amazing interview. [02:26:45] Adnan Saleh: Thank you. Thank you. [02:26:46] Ryan Tamoush: And you've been extremely hospitable to me. [02:26:49] Adnan Saleh: Oh, thank you. [02:26:49] Ryan Tamoush: And I love your property, I love your story. [02:26:52] Adnan Saleh: Thank you. [02:26:52] Ryan Tamoush: I love everything that you have to offer to the world, and that your heart continues. [02:26:58] Adnan Saleh: I'm, well, just, I'm just one. I mean, there is a lot of people. They have way more stories, more complicated than probably mine too, so yeah. [02:27:06] Ryan Tamoush: It's a beautiful story. [02:27:07] Adnan Saleh: Yes. Thank you. Thank you. [02:27:08] Ryan Tamoush: And it's been an, an absolute honor for me, sir. [02:27:10] Adnan Saleh: Thank you. [02:27:11] Ryan Tamoush: Thank you so much, Adnan. [02:27:12] Adnan Saleh: I appreciate it, thank you. [02:27:12] Ryan Tamoush: This concludes our interview with Adnan Salah. And, thank you so much. [02:27:19] Adnan Saleh: Habibi. Habibi, thank you. [02:27:23] Ryan Tamoush: You're the best. [02:27:24] Adnan Saleh: Pleasure.